Boards›[ARCHIVED] Gameplay+

we need a high skill enchanter support

bogoshipda··26 votes·25,180 views

If there is something that i love doing in league, is pocketing my adc hard and saving him from the brink of death with heals/shields/peel and then buffing him up into an unstoppable 1v9 machine, its a really enjoyable feeling to me.

support is my favorite role, as you can obviously tell and i i'm really glad at how diverse supports are. You have tank supports, damage supports, enchanters, hybrids, you have subsections of tank supports, peelers and engagers. all in all, a very diverse cast. of the main 3 categories (damage, enchanter, tank), there is a champion for each of them (except enchanters) that requires a lot of skill but has extreme solo carry potential if you play him just right:

For tank supports, you have thresh, who can be both a peeler and an engager equally effectively, again if you are really skilled. thresh can cancel a lot of mobility provided you play him right, your hooks can get picks if you are good at predictions and abusing the lollypop effect, his box is a good teamfight disruptor and good positioning and awareness can allow you to lantern allies out of danger. he can singlehandedly spoonfeed the adc, get picks around the map, shutdown any attempts of the enemy to engage/flank or engage and lockdown the entire enemy team by himself.

For damage supports (altho he is a hybrid), you have Bard. Bard requires alot of skill and creativity in the ways that you can utilize basically every ability in his kit to save and carry games from certain defeat, his q stun can lockdown 2 targets if you position and aim correctly, your w shrine can be stacked in specific spots to have an escape route in case you get ganked that can save your adc or you from certain death, your E can give your jungler easy gank routes, bait enemies into bad positions and allow you to sneak past vision and finally your ult can with really good placement and timing, both setup a wombo combo or completely stop an enemy wombo, you can save your allies or lockup/pick off the enemy team. not to mention his passive that allows him to scale his damage up really hard into the late game, which allows him to win 1v1's provided again that the bard player is skillful and creative.

both of these characters not only require a ton of skill and creativity to master, but they also are rewarded for that skill with almost unlimited carry potential. their abilities can be comboed and woven together in different ways to singlehandedly turns fights and influence the game more than support normally could. this is also amplified by the roaming potential they have, allowing them to win over other lanes and have impact on the whole map even during early game.

and this is where i run into my issue, as much as i love and appreciate the role and champions Riot has created. we have no equivalent of this for enchanters. the closest thing to it is Nami and maybe Janna, but Janna inst really known to take much skill to work as well as she needs to (at least when she was meta, she is really weak or just eh.). Nami doesn't qualify as this because she cant influence the game much,she doesn't have that unlimited carry potential factor or super high skill cap. font get me wrong, Nami is really fun, i enjoy her a lot, but she is a replacement from what i really want in an enchanter support.

to qualify what i mean by a pure enchanter support and a high skill cap, i'm gonna explain further: an enchanter support is a support who's primary purpose is augmenting a carry and peeling/shielding/healing them, usually they are fragile themselves and bring low damage to the table so they only shine when grouped with others, most pure examples an enchanter support are janna/nami/lulu/soraka with Sona/Taric/Karma being enchanters taking elements from other types of supports and Bard/Morg/Zil/Rakan being hybrids with enchanter elements. this categorization is why i don't consider bard a high skill enchanter support, as he is more so a hybrid with high damage and not so much of ally augmentation.

Before someone talks about how Nami/Janna are as close as one can get to a high skill cap enchanter as it is inherently a "boring"/"stupid"/"unfun"/"unskilled" class/concept in their opinion, let me provide you a specific example from another game:

If any of you have played Overwatch or follow the game at all, you might be aware of a little Grandma Sniper called Ana, she was the first hero to be released post launch and she is a support. She is exactly as i described, a high skill cap enchanter (this class doesn't exist in Overwatch, but her kit would fit the definition). she is probably the support in Overwatch that takes the most skill/aim but at the same time the support that can carry the hardest by herself. her healing/poison darts means you can ditch out a ton of healing or snipe out enemies like Pharah Mercy from the sky, her sleep dart allows her to fend off flankers or interrupt ultimates, her nade which is one of the most powerful basic abilities in the game can both amplify healing on allies and completely deny healing on enemies for a few seconds, an ability that you can throw in really odd angles to get around a barries and force people off highground, break chokepoints, setup huge aoe combos or save allies with massive healing and finally her ult nanoboost can be comboed with other ultis to wipe out the enemy team, save an ally from certain death or make tanks nearly unkillable allowing them to create a ton of space for the dps to free fire.

before you say, "go play overwatch then!", i do play overwatch, i also play league. they're different games and i enjoy both of them for different reasons and i think both of them could improve a lot. just throwing this out there so maybe someone at riot reads and gets a spark of inspiration/is encouraged to keep working on their idea of a high skill enchanter.

I would really love to hear your thoughts on this, whether you disagree or not. also, link me fanmade champions that fit what im looking for, id be interested in checking them out. note that i dont think that the next champions need to include a support necessarily, but this could be an idea for the near future.

tl;dr a high skill cap enchanter support (high skill cap like thresh or bard) is a much needed addition to the game that would probably be welcomed even by people who typically hate enchanters, an example of character like is Ana from Overwatch. enchanters dont have to be simple or easy!

sorry for my english and bad formatting.

[sg-lulu]

60 Comments

Noor Sakata11 votes

Nami ? She actually needs skills to play Hitting her Q isn't easy , and spamming w in lane brainlessly won't win you games.

doiminat0r36001 votes

I was thinking more Lulu . She's extremely high skill in that you have to make split decision on who you cast each ability on. The difference in effects can change a match.

Noor Sakata1 votes

{quoted}

I was thinking more Lulu . She's extremely high skill in that you have to make split decision on who you cast each ability on. The difference in effects can change a match.

Yeah that's right but it goes to all enchanters all of them needed to think of who to shield and good redemptions timing , and also Locket timing pre nerfs

doiminat0r36001 votes

But Lulu needs to think whether she wants to polymorph or to give an ally movespeed. She needs to decide whether to shield an ally or slow an enemy. She needs to decide what ally or what enemy to do these things to as well.

In addition to what other champions have to do (picking which ally/enemy) she also has to pick an ally or an enemy. Instead of choosing between 5 enemies or 4 allies (potentially herself as well, she has to decide between 10 targets for almost every spell in her kit.

She's much more complicated than most other champions for this reason.

Noor Sakata1 votes

{quoted}

But Lulu needs to think whether she wants to polymorph or to give an ally movespeed. She needs to decide whether to shield an ally or slow an enemy. She needs to decide what ally or what enemy to do these things to as well.

In addition to what other champions have to do (picking which ally/enemy) she also has to pick an ally or an enemy. Instead of choosing between 5 enemies or 4 allies (potentially herself as well, she has to decide between 10 targets for almost every spell in her kit.

She's much more complicated than most other champions for this reason.

Yes I know but doesn't the same go for Janna ? trying to use your ult to heal the whole team and save your teammate , timing your q well ,and use time your shield well , because janna shield has longer cd

doiminat0r36001 votes

No, the same thing does not go for Janna.

Janna doesn't choose to buff her ally or hurt enemies with every single ability.

Her kit is pretty straight forward. Her Q and W hurt enemies and apply CC. Her E shields allies. Her Ultimate heals allies and pushes away enemies.

I don't think you understand what makes Lulu high skill. She's high skill because she has to choose help allies or hurt enemies. Janna doesn't have to choose with 3/4 abilities (and even the 4th ability just does both, not one or the other). Janna's kit's abilities only have one function. Having good timing doesn't mean the champion is skillful as much as the player is skillful. Someone like Garren could have good timing on his silence. Does that mean he is a high skill champion even though he is one of the starting champions that are very cheap???

Eleshakai1 votes

I agree - Nami is quite high skill. There's a lot of mana management early game and using your q both wisely and accurately. Her wave is very hard to hit anything more than 2 inches away, and picking who to heal to ensure maximum bounces requires good awareness.

The only skill of hers that doesn't have some real opportunity for skill expression is her e, but that's fine.

ShaolinToilet1 votes

Nami takes skill to play but her winrate does not increase very much the more you play her

IxtaliKing4 votes

I really hope they do, but it seems like Riot has given up on enchanters and artillery mages.

Galiö2 votes

Well we just got an artillary mage with Zoe not all that long ago.

IxtaliKing1 votes

Zoe is just a Burst Mage.

Alzon2 votes

Both

IxtaliKing1 votes

Lol ok I guess Riot changed their mind then

ez mental boom3 votes

>high skill > enchanter

pick 1

bogoshipda2 votes

currently this is the case, yes. thats why i made the post so it can be changed, ty for the contribution! o/

gabetheguy3 votes

that's the point of the post chief

jocomotion2 votes

What about the guy who has to throw his squishy body in the fray to actually support anyone?

bogoshipda3 votes

rakan? or am i missing someone?

jocomotion3 votes

{quoted}

rakan? or am i missing someone?

Yeah, Rakan’s primary role is an enchanter above anything else.

Compared to Karma he’s way more effective at helping his teammates, and has better peel.

People like to call him a Diver because of his RW combo, but most divers stay in the fight while Rakan has to dip back out usually immediately because his base stats are so low.

Then people say his main goal is engage so he’s a catcher, but Nami’s Got engage too, yet everyone identifies her as an enchanter, but not Rakan.

I understand bard because his playstyle is so drastically different from other enchanters and turns him primarily into a catcher, but I feel like you overlooked Rakan a bit.

kda akali3 votes

I think Rakan is a catcher while Nami isn't is because he has to get close to the enemy to cc them. Nami's cc is also mostly used for disengage.

jocomotion2 votes

[{quoted}](name=cute egirl janna,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=AF69Ec9A,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-11T21:51:27.506+0000)

I think Rakan is a catcher while Nami isn't is because he has to get close to the enemy to cc them. Nami's cc is also mostly used for disengage.

Well then the problem there is he does a lot less of actually catching people out and a lot more of engaging an entire fight. Catchers usually focus on forcing one or two enemies into a bad spot, not disrupting just them. When he's aggressive, Rakan's CC makes him look a lot more like a Vangaurd, but he's not nearly tanky enough to be classified as one.

Plus I'd argue that Rakan does a better job defending allies than Nami does, and Nami's way more aggressive than he is in terms of laning phase, damage, and her role in teamfights, so it still makes little sense to not include him as an enchanter.

bogoshipda1 votes

a traditional enchanter has some form of augmentation for the ally, not just peel/heals/shields. at best he would be an enchanter with strong elements from engage supports, imo. also nami's cc is regarded as counter-engage, trying to use her abilities to engage is really hard and is hardly as effective. saving it for peeling and disrupting attackers that are already committed is more of her playstyle.

TLF brubie1 votes

Is soraka not an enchanter then? I agree though, Rakan's primary function is not shielding/healing/buffing allies which is what enchanters do. However I would argue that enchanter's are generally have a similar skillcap to other supports, being squishy and not super bursty means positioning and trading in lane is much more important so that you don't die. Also how is no one mentioning taric, he's an enchanter and is in my opinion has a steep learning curve and reasonably high skill ceiling.

Daddy Ants1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Rakan’s primary role is an enchanter above anything else.

Compared to Karma he’s way more effective at helping his teammates, and has better peel.

People like to call him a Diver because of his RW combo, but most divers stay in the fight while Rakan has to dip back out usually immediately because his base stats are so low.

Then people say his main goal is engage so he’s a catcher, but Nami’s Got engage too, yet everyone identifies her as an enchanter, but not Rakan.

I understand bard because his playstyle is so drastically different from other enchanters and turns him primarily into a catcher, but I feel like you overlooked Rakan a bit.

Not true.

Rakan's main role is Catcher.

gabetheguy1 votes

Rakan is tankish

5050BS2 votes

Riot needs to limit skill cap on all champs else you have champs like Akali who in the right hands cant lose. No champ should have 1v9 power.

ez mental boom4 votes

Any champion can 1v9 """in the right hands.""" She has a 43% winrate in your rank. What the hell are you complaining about? Not everything challenger players say applies to you.

In fact, almost none of it applies to you. Camille isn't OP in your rank. TF isn't OP in your rank. Lucian isn't OP in your rank. Kai'Sa isn't OP in your rank. Graves isn't OP in your rank. etc.

qwerty192 votes

A way to get a high skill cap enchanter that is like Ana is to make their heals/damage skillshots instead of point and click shields/heals we have in Nami/Janna/Lulu/Soraka. A way to offset the skillshots are to make the heals/stat enhancements higher than the other enchanters. Maybe make a champ have smaller hitbox skillshots that give healing, added damage, or a spell shield then their ultimate changes their next ability to change from a single skillshot to an aoe effect kinda like soraka w size. It would make this champ potentially be more op but only if the player is good

bogoshipda1 votes

definetly a possibility. only one issue tho, soraka w isnt aoe? did you mean her q?

qwerty191 votes

yeah meant her q or e but my fat fingers hit w lmao

Gilgayu1 votes

I new enchanter support will definitely be interesting, but as you said, you want to turn your adc into "an unstoppable 1v9 machine." Sure, I feel you whole-heartedly, cause I would love that too, but other roles wouldn't favor it so much

Lulu is a great example. When you(the adc) become extremly fed and you have a lulu, you can't die unless you 2v4/5. If you are a hypercarry (say, Jinx or twitch), you can actually 2v5.

I think the only way to make a enchanter possibly stronger than lulu is to make all his/her shielding, on-hit buffs, or whatever ability as skill shots. But even then enchanter would be broken in pro plays (remember Faker's lulu solo-killing the LB?).

It is a hard subject to work around, but I believe they are working on it.

bogoshipda1 votes

purely an expression. most of the times we are either playing rly well and our team is peeling or distracting the enemies in some way. im sure it would be hard to make a high skill cap champion, it always is, its hard to balance them due to how player dependant they can be, and an enchanter would be no different. i trust riot to handle it tho, as much as people wanna shit on their balance team, balancing a game as complex as league is an insanely hard task.

Reksee1 votes

I apologize for the fact that I don't have a link to another site but I have a vague idea on what could be an enchanter of sorts. Here is a basic rundown of potential skills

passive: For this I'm not sure what a good passive would be. But what I can say is that this champion would command separate entities from them. These entities(orbs is probably a better word) could be detonated with attacks to damage enemies. I would imagine aoe would detonate them but that may not be the best idea. These entities could be detonated by enemies but it wouldn't damage allies.

Q: This would be to direct the entities near an ally

w:This would create an entity using a system of rechargeable charges

e:Direct entities near an enemy, this is the most risky skill as it makes it more difficult for ally adc to attack enemy

r:This would be to detonate the entities after a short delay.

I'm not entirely sure if this fits as an enchanter but I can see how it could be a support.

The q makes it more difficult to attack ally, as it could be easy to misclick on an orb.

The e would be detrimental if timed incorrectly, similar to bard's ult which can be misused in detrimental ways.

The r is necessary because it is the only way that this champion could directly damage an enemy

I'm not sure if this could be classified as an enchanter but it is an idea for a high skill support that would hinder unskilled enemies and boost skilled allies while also taking sufficient skill to operate. This is the only thing I could think of to be a good idea for an enchanter(if it even is one).

Stelyar1 votes

That kinda sounds like azir, but with exploding soldiers and no mobility. It would have to really have more unique effects for buffs and something better than simply detonating. Plus giving them a friendly hitbox would suck if they're at all misplaced.

Reksee1 votes

{quoted}

That kinda sounds like azir, but with exploding soldiers and no mobility. It would have to really have more unique effects for buffs and something better than simply detonating. Plus giving them a friendly hitbox would suck if they're at all misplaced.

True, but remember that it is a rough idea. To add on, Bard is also a character whose ult can suck it you use it incorrectly but well utilized by an expert Bard.

Reksee1 votes

{quoted}

True, but remember that it is a rough idea. To add on, Bard is also a character whose ult can suck it you use it incorrectly but well utilized by an expert Bard.

Besides that I agree with you.

Stelyar1 votes

I just mean that it would have to restrict the enemy movement in some way(over doing damage if needed), both to fit within a support role and also because they would simply run away otherwise. Since with a Bard ult if someone gets caught alone right before they die, chances are they just die once the effect ends, but if all this did was make it harder for allies to hit them they could forseeably escape

xDelightifyx1 votes

Change Lulus Polymorph from beeing point and click, to a skillshot and there u have your high skill support.

bogoshipda1 votes

that would not fit at all. her kit cant carry really hard and a skillshot isnt really high skill cap by default. high skill cap requires creativity and really good mechanics to pull off. if a skillshot or 2 is all a champion needed to qualify as high skill then we wouldnt need lulu to get a skill shot for there to be a high skill enchanter, nami would already qualify. :/

The Trent1 votes

I mean Soraka in higher elos is a very high skill enchanter support. Just get to high elo and play Soraka. I don't think we need a high skill cap enchanter as it would result in a bot that's way too heavily decided on just the support. If you give a champion a high skill cap, ex Irelia, people will use it to the max potential, and that results in broken champs in high elo. I don't think it's a good idea because support is already such an oppressive role. A good support can carry way harder than a good adc can, and it would just make bot super one sided. You're trying to compare overwatch to League, but the thing about overwatch is you can switch your heros mid game to counter Ana, who is a high skill cap support. Yes, Ana's apm is extremely high and in exchange she can do some pretty cool things. Overwatch however allows for these types of heros because you could pick a simple hero like tracer mid game and then just kill the ana while she's alone. In League, you can't do that. If Irelia get's picked, you kinda have to counter her or hope for her to be bad. If Irelia get's picked last, so you can't even counter her, you get a boards post about how op she is. If we made that, but for supports, I just think that's dumb because the role in itself is already high skill cap. Like seriously, just play soraka and it'll fuel your high apm needs.

Josh Sand1 votes

There are so many spells in this game that would be a great addition to enchanters. As a quick reminder, here is what the enchanter description is:

Enchanters focus on amplifying their allies' effectiveness by directly augmenting them and defending them from incoming threats. Enchanters themselves are often quite fragile and bring relatively low damage to the table, meaning they really only shine when grouped together with others.

Lets look at how enchanters defend their allies:

Janna Point Click Slow, AoE Knockup Skillshot, AoE Displacement, AD augment Shield

Karma AoE Slow, Tether Root, Speed Shield

Sona AoE Speed, AoE Shields, AoE Stun

Soraka AoE Silence, Target Heals

Lulu Point Click Poly (or Speed), Shield, HP Boost + Knockup

Taric AoE Stun, AoE Invulnerability, AoE Heals

Nami AoE Stun, AoE Knockup + Slow

So far, most Enchanters have a lot of repeated abilities. We see a lot of speed ups, slows, shields/heals, and some stuns. But when you think about it, there are plenty of other ways that you can stuff an opponent's offensive output, besides what Enchanters are already bringing to the table.

Right now Enchanters feel kind of like generalists. Like if you have a hypercarry on your team, you can use pretty much any of them and do well enough. But what if we had Enchanters that had more defined abilities that gave them specialty applications?

What if we had an enchanter that didn't rely on shields, but instead relied on things like:

Graves Smokescreen

Ivern Bushes (these are pretty useful in a fight when placed on your ADC!)

Azir Emperor's Divide (one of the best means of protection in the game)

Taliyah Skill shot AoE displacement would be a lot of fun for Enchanters

Gangplank What if an Enchanter relied on a barrel/trap mechanic for their crowd control?

Anivia Trundle Wall or Pillar would be a stellar peeling tool

Irelia An AoE Disarm spell would be fantastic for an Enchanter specialized vs. Auto Attack champions

Singed Singed flip into his sticky pool would be a really fun peeling mechanic

Zac Zac has some of the most fun CC in the game. Clever use of them creates good repositioning

Yasuo Windwall

You don't necessarily need to use shields or stuns to support your allies. There are already tons of skill based mechanics that allow for that. It's just that those mechanics are all found on champions that aren't actual supports. :(

I would love it so much if Riot decided to create the same mastery ceilings for Support champions, like they do champions like Irelia Azir Zed Akali Ekko Gangplank FioraYasuo

TLF brubie1 votes

A few of those things have existed and/or do exist, trundle and ornn have been viable and even meta as supports, braum has the support version of windwall, and according to my friend who works in the competetive lol scene, support taliyah might be viable.

Josh Sand1 votes

True, but what I'm saying that those spells could be useful on enchanter supports as well (not just tanks), because those are more creative ways to mitigate a champions damage rather than just point click shielding someone. Shields are insanely boring when you consider that there are way cooler things that you could put into an enchanters kit.

Ηuawei1 votes

Janna is a high skill cap enchanter support.

I'm not talking about the people who just shield and then shield again when the shield is down.

I'm talking about people who make plays with her like aiming Q to maximize knockup duration, using heal to knock people back to places etc.

Support Position1 votes

I wish I could downvote this lol

ClutchCrux1 votes

I feel like Lulu would have a high skillcap.

WEREW0LF1 votes

I think I need to read this when im not tired , I admittedly skimmed this but if the person you are describing is the person I think, in over watch shes OP as hell....

I dont know the level you play at but I think a LOT of champions have a fiew TIERS of play, like you have generic passible play, and then you have where you learn a few tricks. And you seem to play them on a whole other level. Like you can bowl a good game rolling the ball straight, or play pool ok making linear shots but once you learn to hook the ball or put english on a que its a VERY different game.

Lulu is VERY dynamic. You have 4 abilities that can literally be used 6 ways? Q slows damages, Your pixie can be put on them for sight and to cast from pixy for 4 seconds, speed up a friend, or speed up a friend or ult... etc...

And a champ like Orianna is like that. you think ok ig eal but her ball does damage to ALL units it passes you realize you can do damage while shielding a guy, and speeding/slowing them... as well as Zilean...

I mean, im not sure I understand... Maybe you want a buffer/debuffer with range? like sona, but at more range? That would be pretty broken, its why its broken in overwatch and you see that chick every game. There are some champs, like Trundle whos ult peels tanks armor andhis bite reduces their damage... ?

I need to re-read this less tired maybe....

I love to play unusual but highly effective supports like Gragas or even Sejuani ... and nearly any mage type support can do what you are talking about. Karma is another great example all her abilities chnage and do double duty. Any champ where 4 butons / abilities become more like 6 or 8 ... is a very high skill cap potential. Boring ass Soraka with her lackluster bullshit and 4 buttons that do 4 predictable things... ugh....

PlantagenNega1 votes

well would be cool but woudlnt work 80% of the supp mains are egirls that just duo and have no skill themselves...

Metacognition1 votes

Hi unfortunately i dont think we will get anything like this soon and i doubt they can make such a champ i am thinking how they can make a high skill cap enchanter and if they make a champ that has only shields/heals/cc without any source of dmg i dont think it will be viable and i doubt it will need a ton of skill to play defensive and just randomly spam the skills. what makes ana a hard champ is positioning and aiming in league its quite different i think soraka is somewhat a high skill cap champ too players just dont know how to play her... they build warmog and other hp items instead of building raw ap to give more sustain to team.. the learning curve of the skills isnot that high but to play her properly and at highest level it requires a lot of skill to give you an example all soraka players ive seen they build max 2 ap items which is frostfang and ardent cancer my build is frostfang,lucidity boots ,ardent,rabadon,athene(if im too squishy i swap with redemption or buy ruby crystal),redemption before i got permabanned i had 64% wr in d2 with soraka which you can see here http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=wannabelikedopa but i stopped playing her because i dont like to depend on my team ..with bard i just solocarry for the most part :D its just tilting when one of your lane has 20 kills and you end up losing the game because he doesnot do anything with the gold he has ... with bard if i get ahead i can carry ....unlike soraka because i do dmg and i dont depend on someone else doing dmg ... like i remember one game in d3 my team throw after every lane from my team was ahead and i could not do anything to prevent the loss by just healing my team if no one did dmgxd i would love to play an enchanter that requires as much time as i put into bard learning him because i am actually better as a shielder than being a tank/carry ... (i was really bad with bard i started seeing improvements after 2 years)

So for now if you want to play an "enchanter" that can 1v9 try soraka i mean jannna and other jokes are heavily team dependant with soraka you can carry if you have atleast one human being in team and you are good enough

Goodluck with this post i never had luck on the boards all my topics were downvoted and full of toxic kids i hope you will get more support ;)

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