I understand the design philosophy behind Pyke was an Assassin Support

Ionian Vulpix·1/27/2019, 8:27:09 PM·64 votes·17,645 views

The million-dollar question is WHY WOULD YOU MAKE AN ASSASSIN SUPPORT? Was autofill that big of a problem?

He gets all the benefits that assassins have (high damage, mobility, target access, really cheap items but that's an issue for another thread) without having the inherent risk that comes from an assassin, namely being useless if he can't nuke someone, bad laning phase, or just lack of sustain. Talon had his silence removed because CC on an assassin was busted. People complain about LB because her CC is nearly undodgeable.

I want an answer. WHY would you make an assassin support?

54 Comments

kargish1/27/2019, 9:25:56 PM41 votes

The idea is not bad Imo he's simply overtuned. Heals too much and does too much damage. Also, hooks are never useless. Ever.

Nea1041/27/2019, 10:15:39 PM11 votes

His creator: "Chasing the possibility of a pentakill on a support is awesome". This is the kind of people "working" on this game. What do you expect? Answer: Season 8.

Therefore Season 9 is gonna be just a cosplay of Season 8.

GigglesO1/27/2019, 9:50:41 PM11 votes

Hes being played mid because he is too good at his job...

The thigh guy1/28/2019, 3:15:29 AM4 votes

Auto fill is the exact reason behind it. All the whiny ass midlaners (all 10000000000000000000 of them) complained that they got auto filled more than everyone else, and we all know they “don’t own” any support champions. So they bitched a moaned until they made Pyke.

Thilmer1/27/2019, 10:56:27 PM4 votes

The whole Pyke idea is a fail from its core.

A support that can kill-steal is stupid, because people that want to do 15 kills per game is not going to play support, not matter what you do.

Meanwhile, let's nerf enchanters some more, and push mages like Brand and Vel'koz into the support role because they are terrible in mid.

The whole design philosophy of the game since season 7 is stupid.

DarkKatalyst1/28/2019, 4:48:53 AM3 votes

Hey, at least now as a support main, I finally have a good reason to ban a support champion. /s

MankeyMadness1/27/2019, 11:11:44 PM3 votes

SUPPORTS ARENT SUPPOSED TO BE CARRIES

Meanwhile Zyra continues year after year being not forced into mid as a discount Malzahar.

OneMustFall1/28/2019, 5:11:56 AM3 votes

I hate the auto execute as part of his kit.I don't mind an assassin like support but an execute is just dumb and a lazy way of implementing an assassin support playstyle. Not only that but it makes ADCs feel worthless and is counter intuitive to what a support should be.

Sire Hippington1/28/2019, 2:16:33 PM3 votes

I like the basic idea of pike, a support that plays a bit like an assasin but offers catchpotential with CC rather than raw burst. However, pyke is just overloaded/overtuned, with his bases stats and slipperyness the amount of sustain he has makes it near impossible to pubnish him, and the rather high base damage+cc allows him to punish everone else rather hard. Though my main issue is his Ult:

Aoe execute with high base value that does pure damage?

_Fine, why not. _

With high range?

Ok...

That also is a gapcloser?

_ Ähm..._

And it's near impossible to avoid without a dash...

why?

That also gives full kill bounty to one ally that assisted...

_ ...what?_

Oh, and it also resets!

...WTF is wrong with you people

Seriously, that ult is disgustingly broken and incredible overloaded.

ValyrianBlade1/28/2019, 2:52:02 AM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ionian Vulpix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zx6sO3JA,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-01-27T20:27:09.701+0000)

The million-dollar question is WHY WOULD YOU MAKE AN ASSASSIN SUPPORT? Was autofill that big of a problem?

He gets all the benefits that assassins have (high damage, mobility, target access, really cheap items but that's an issue for another thread) without having the inherent risk that comes from an assassin, namely being useless if he can't nuke someone, bad laning phase, or just lack of sustain. Talon had his silence removed because CC on an assassin was busted. People complain about LB because her CC is nearly undodgeable.

I want an answer. WHY would you make an assassin support?

I think Pyke was fine until people got better at him and we realize he was overtuned.

When pyke starts coming mid/top = he needs nerfs, period.

The CONCEPT was fine. Sure, he doesn't suffer from the weaknesses of assassins AS MUCH (however he still DOES to an extent - he dies easily if cc'd when going for a kill for example) while also not being AS GOOD as assassins at their typical job (i.e. he does less damage in a combo despite building full damage [a Pyke never 100-0's someone, he feasts on damaged targets and cleaning up a won fight], his escape isn't as reliable [his stealth can be detected in close range and he isn't as extremely mobile as some assassins]).

Basically - he can function as an assassin SHOULD function - not 100-0 solo killing people, but effectively cleaning up low health targets. Which honestly is how ALL assassins should be tuned (they should be weak in a straight up 1v1 from full health because their burst should be on a sufficiently long cooldown that if you're not low enough to kill, you'll get them with DPS. And their burst shouldn't be enough to kill targets from full or near-full health). However of course when everyone and their brother can kill any squishy from near full health, of course assassins need to kill from full health. Damage creep is unreal and the whole game needs to be tuned way back - but that's a discussion for another thread.

Anyways - Pyke as a concept is fine. A shittier version of an assassin without all the big drawbacks. However when overtuned, like anything else, he's too strong. Because an overtuned shittier assassin without the drawbacks is just an assassin without the drawbacks.

GripaAviara1/28/2019, 3:23:39 PM2 votes

I kinda get the damage dealer sup, be it AP like brand or AD like Pyke, but I don't get the sustain he has to have combined with his mobility.

Pyke needs a serious nerf when he is playing on other lanes

Raiyza1/28/2019, 3:55:54 PM2 votes

Autofill is that bad of a problem. Players will pick a support they know how to play, but they won't play them good enough. I get so many autofill Lux/Morg/Sona/Etc and while they know what the abilities do, they don't play the champions ,nor the role, well at all. That's why I took the time back in season 7 to main Thresh so I can pick him comfortably when autofilled.

Pyke at least allows the assassin playstyle in the support role. As an ADC main, I'm fine with that, but Pyke is definitely overpowered. The regen needs a nerf, and so does his ult.

Jerry SeinfeId1/27/2019, 10:59:57 PM2 votes

pyke really isn't that bad once you've played him and understand the champ.

His hook is the easiest of all to dodge, unlike blitz, naut or thresh he can't use a small misstep to just get someone. His stun is fairly easy to dodge and after that he ain't much of a threat on his own. It's just when he pops off, he pops off hard.

Most of the time i lose against a pyke is when my team doesn't respect him. and they only notice when it's too late.

LB is in a whole different league tbh. i probably couldn't play the champ for shit, but does she really need that damn tether range when she has 2 dashes?

Neptunia xoxo1/28/2019, 5:11:16 AM2 votes

Every top player complains about Pyke yet nothing is done about it xDDDDD

Meritas1/29/2019, 12:14:32 AM1 votes

Because we need more diversity in this game. There were points in the past where the same champions were getting released weeks apart. And no, Riot shouldn't "just stop releasing new champions because the roster is big enough". I think that as long as there's a niche for a champion type to be filled there's no reason for it not to be filled. That is not to say that said champions shouldn't be balanced properly, but just because something is frustrating to play against it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist in the first place.

Barso551/28/2019, 6:26:20 AM1 votes

i'm not high elo but ive been playing pyke and against pyke quite a bit.

His regen is strong, yes, but the inability to gain bonus health makes him balanced imo.

If he builds straight up damage (3x lethality items) he is super super squishy. He blows up SO fast its not funny. If he builds armor/mr all he has is his execute - granted can still be useful without much damage items, but he hook and stun do paltry damage on their own.

A well played pyke I see can really bring a lot to the table before 15 minutes - but he falls off so hard because of his squishiness and needing to be in melee range/to be the engage/to execute also puts him in the middle of a teamfight its not funny.

my 0.02

Nevrankroaton1/28/2019, 8:13:01 AM1 votes

Why not?

Why are support forced to be a biatch role for then having people saying it take no skill to heal/shield and ignoring positionning, windows of trading/power, lane pressure, etc. It is not like people recognize the strength of some other support or praise their gameplay, I am okay with having an assassin support if I can properly retaliate. I just want Pyke health regen to work differently, like he regen more HP if he got out of taking damage quikcly but the more damage he take, the less his regen will be. Something that reward actually fighting him well while also allowing him to not be a b*atch in lane.

Every top elo ADC say that pyke is strong but overrated. He is just a strong soloQ champ.

Exin01/28/2019, 8:39:27 AM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ionian Vulpix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zx6sO3JA,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-01-27T20:27:09.701+0000)

The million-dollar question is WHY WOULD YOU MAKE AN ASSASSIN SUPPORT? Was autofill that big of a problem?

He gets all the benefits that assassins have (high damage, mobility, target access, really cheap items but that's an issue for another thread) without having the inherent risk that comes from an assassin, namely being useless if he can't nuke someone, bad laning phase, or just lack of sustain. Talon had his silence removed because CC on an assassin was busted. People complain about LB because her CC is nearly undodgeable.

I want an answer. WHY would you make an assassin support?

only reason behind all of this is riot pushing flashy assassins to pro play to spice things up but ironicaly this have opposite effect more damage and snowballing create more safe play, more turtling and more use uf "boring" utility champions.

Furry Erotica5/8/2019, 3:53:42 PM1 votes

I want his early game nerfed so he can get late game buffs. The champ is trash after 15 minutes.

SpongebobIsLife1/28/2019, 5:09:03 PM1 votes

I think he's fine and a good and fun design. His heal just needs to be halved.

Daddy Have Mercy1/28/2019, 7:43:26 PM1 votes

Pyke is a double edge sword, a strong laning phase and mid game comes with shitty scaling late game, and if he falls behind it is hard for him to come back, also the fact that he can never get tanky because passive won't allow him to build HP. He is a monster if played correctly to pick others off people with a teammate in the jungle, but there are just way too many pykes running in for a penta and dies halfway these days ;^) also one of the lowest winnrate support these days according to stats.

SociopathFriend1/28/2019, 7:48:02 PM1 votes

Talon had his silence removed because CC on an assassin was busted.

No, Talon had his silence removed because it was attached to a blink that put him right behind you. Coincidentally that ability was so toxic and stupid that even WITHOUT the silence it was removed.

deadlychuck1/27/2019, 10:06:20 PM1 votes

I mean they literally changed support from support to carry after the numerous vision nerfs and the changes to support gold income and champions like Thresh remaining uncontested top tier picks for nearly 3 years... so...

Tobykachu1/27/2019, 11:21:02 PM1 votes

It's okay if they want to make him the kind of champion you pick up when you want to transition from an assassin in the mid lane to the support role. Being able to pick a champion with a kit that's familiar to you to learn about the basics of a role that's new to you, in this example, which adc's do what in the laning phase, warding, roaming etc. The issue is that they've made him one of, if not the strongest solo queue support, that it's drowning out other traditional support champions.

Deprecious1/28/2019, 10:12:41 PM1 votes

99% percent of people complaining about pyke here, never played him before, and have no idea how he works..

First of all, pyke doesn't give to his allies 1500 gold, he gives 300 gold only to one of his team mates, no matter how many people assisted on that kill Second, his damage is extremely low for an assassin, no matter how many item he gets, he will never be able to 1 v 1 you, unless you are lower than 40% health and he has his R and full HP Third, he is extremely squishy, and can't build HP Fourth, the only reason he is being played top and mid is because of the current jungle meta, he is there only to help the jungler snowball harder, his lane phase and 1 v 1 potential is garbage..

He is fine as he is, also fun to play as support, if you get tired of being camped and getting one shot, or being abused by mages with infinite poke and mana, then try him

Dangerous Man1/28/2019, 2:40:51 AM1 votes

I think they should nerf his E damage, reduce length of W, and remove the passive that prevents him from building health. A nerf and buff so then he's just a top laner. He should still be able to be support, but not an absurd one or limited one.

It was a dumb idea to limit his role with the "no building hp" thing to begin with. Riot used to let champions flow whatever direction players took them (eg. Taliyah jungle) but recently, sometimes they really force the role (eg. Pyke, Ivern, Skarner rework) and it makes them extremely weird. Often having absurd win/ban rates in that role until nerfed to be garbage. On top of that, being really boring because if you want to off-role them, you'll do horrible.

Morticianjohn1/28/2019, 3:06:11 AM1 votes

I think their design philosophy is something like "make the champion and let the players decide where that champion works best". Granted they have an idea in mind where the champion might work best but I wonder if pyke had worked best jg or top would they have just balanced him around that instead.

Paroe1/27/2019, 9:57:50 PM1 votes

I think the reason why pyke exists in the state he is, and why riotpushed his concept, is due to the success of ganesha from SMITE. That character is unique as far as supports go; its basically a burst mage with a caveat. Ganesha cannot kill, allowing allies to last hit instead. Ganesha gets massively increased assist gold instead of kill gold.

Tbh pyke needs a rework in his current state. He has WAY to many tools for what he does and its extremely difficult to punish him. That healing while unseen has got to go, and his ult execution needs to be changed. Further reworks could transform his passive into a lethality scaling spellblade with charges based on CDR.

heroikc1/27/2019, 9:45:04 PM1 votes

SLAGIATT for a damage meta. Right now, his regen is too much, akin to early Tahm. They'll likely fix that. Not sure about the rest, though...