Honest opinion from a 710 059 mastery diana main on her upcoming rework

Th3 Rift Hero·11/27/2019, 6:44:15 PM·5 votes·2,796 views

After testing her on pbe, im kinda worried about these changes, the q r combo defined her identity and she did damage with it, now it just seems like she have no identity anymore.

Now r is replaced by e and really dont do enough damage to even justify the reset on moonlight, it dont even feel like a good idea to max it cause, damage don't scale enough and ratio is too low, also, w has a maximum damage now, it scales with hp, but a tanky diana with no damage don't feels good. Now she rely on a high cooldown r to do damage.

I mean, i actually kinda love this ult cause it do high damage on multiple enemies, altough, the damage is too easy to just be dodged cause it does her old e and after that, enemies have time to escape before the damage land, so i dont imagine it even be good in high elo cause people are too good at dodging, and if they dodge, well 0 damage and over 1 min cooldown, i also noticed that if you die before the damage land, the damage just doesnt apply even if it touch the enemies.

So in a few words q r(e) reset don't do damage, w has a limit on how much it hurt, e has negligible damage and r have high aoe damage, but isnt reliable at all and dont have a strong enough cc to be considered good.

Now i'll compare the abilities:

Q : unchanged but 50 mana instead of 55

W: no clear difference it damage but at level 1 orbs could do 96 but they are restricted at 88, shield at level 1 has 30+30%ap+10% bonus hp when it used to be 40+30% ap, now you need hp to have the same shield amount than before. although mana cost level slower 9 cooldown instead of 10

old: 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 / 100 mana new: 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 mana

e(I'll compare with old R): 40/60/80/100/120+40% ap E 40/45/50/55/60 mana 22/20/18/16/14 sec cooldown

                                          100/160/220+60% ap             R
                                          50/65/80 mana
                                          25/20/15 sec cooldown

R : 100 mana e effect slow by 40/50 /60% 200+60%ap +35 +15% ap for each target beyond the first/300+60% ap +60+15% ap/400+60%ap+85+15%ap
100/90/80 sec cooldown

i'll compare this build damage at lvl 18 on both dianas versions with q r(e) w and third auto

item 1056 item 1056 item 3907 item 3089

new diana: (200+312)+(210+200)+(120+178)+(250+178) = 1648

----yes passive damage is also lowered

if we add a e reset:

1648+(120+178) = 1946

if we add an r on one champion (400+267) = 2315

on a whole team +(85+67)*4 = 2923

old diana: (200+312)+(70+89)*3 + (220+267)+(250+356) = 2082

if we add a r reset = 2569

so the normal combo do 434 more damage on old diana and e reset can't even equalize the normal combo, it do 136 less damage. the old diana r, if resetted, do higher damage than single target new diana r, it do 254 more damage. Altough new diana r do more damage on all the team than the old diana combo with r reset for 354 more damage but still, its highly unlikely to land.

What i would want from this rework is either : -Make e still maxing-worthy and less trash -Make her r more reliable, maybe give it a root instead of a drag and slow, or maybe just make the casting faster or let the damage apply at the same time it apply cc( could use less damage in this case to balance) -Remove maximum damage on W, maybe keep it like it was -Change the whole rework -Don't rework

19 Comments

Yenn11/27/2019, 9:39:02 PM5 votes

They're trying to turn her into an AP bruiser (which she was originally intended to be). Except, you know, we don't have the itemization to support that, so I'm not sure what the point is.

MiracleMorg9411/27/2019, 8:13:39 PM3 votes

Well I'm sure tanky diana feels different because people are used to "assassin" diana. But really, she should have been what her classification is- Diver. Those are more sturdy champs that don't do much damage, and have defensive tools to stay in prolonged fights instead. So of course she feels off, but its what she needs to be.

Play her more and I'm sure you'll learn to like the "new" Diana.

Anime Fizz11/28/2019, 2:25:06 AM3 votes

Diana is pretty broken on pbe right now, her full combo on multiple targets has like an almost 4.0 total ap ratio scaling, and most of it is aoe, its nuts.

Baby Ghoul11/28/2019, 2:18:03 AM2 votes

It's definitely a step down from where she was at because people played Diana like an assassin, and assassins are at the top of the meta right now. Their items grant them so much survival time already.

I don't know why they're putting this much work into reworking a champion that is just going to flounder in this current meta.

There's just not really a reason for a bruiser when assassins can still do assassin damage, but then prolong fights by self-healing, mobility, etc. The bruiser class doesn't really have a place in this game anymore. Not because they're bad, but because, well, why not be an assassin? There's no downsides to being one, especially in solo queue.

Verðandi11/30/2019, 4:26:39 AM1 votes

None of this is taking into armor/magic resist, blah blah blah, just got bored and did some base comparisons. The level 3 comparisons show AP scaling, and for simplicity sake, uses base cooldowns.

Level 3 Live: Level 3 damage, 1 passive proc, AP: 33(Dorans and runes) P=30+80%AP(26) Q=60+70%AP(23) W=66+60%AP(21) electrocute(if taken): 48+8 AD at 3: 57 Full damage = 339(passive does base AD+ele)

Can do this damage(minus ele) every 10 seconds, with interrupt/displacement/slow on a 26 second CD but lacks a enemy targeted dash.

PBE: Level 3 damage, 1 passive proc, AP: 33 P=30+40%AP(13) Q=60+70%AP(23) W=66+45%AP(15) E=40+40% x2(13) ele: 48+8 AD at 3: 57 Full damage = 426(passive+ele)

Can do this damage(minus ele) every 22 seconds, with NO CC at all. Every 15 seconds if you Q>E>W>P then wait for W cooldown.

Level 6 Live: Level 6, 1 passive proc, AP: 73 AP(1 Doran ring, blasting wand, runes) P=55+58 Q=130+51 W=66+45 R=100+44 x2 ele=74+18 AD at 6: 64 Full damage = 849(passive and ele)

Can do this damage every 25 seconds, with CC/interrupt still at 26.

PBE: Level 6, 1 passive proc, AP: 73 AP(1 Doran ring, blasting wand) P=55+29 Q=130+51 W=66+33 E=40+29x2 R=200+44(140+44max) ele=74+18 AD at 6: 64 Full damage = 902(1090 pulling all 5 in)(658 missing R)

Can do this damage every 100 seconds, with CC/interrupt/displacement.

Level 18 Live: Level 18, 1 passive, AP: 500(just a number for scalings, whatever) P=250+400 Q=200+350 W=210+300 R=220+300 x2 ele=180+125 AD at 18: 104 Full damage = 3159(passive and ele)

Can do this damage(minus ele) every 15 seconds, with CC/interrupt/displacement, on a 18 second CD.

PBE: Level 18, 1 passive, AP:500(blah blah blah) P=250+200 Q=200+350 W=210+225 E=120+200 x2 R=400+300(340+300max) ele=180+125 AD at 18: 104 Full damage = 3184(3824 full pull)(2484 missing R)

Can do this damage every 80 seconds, with CC/interrupt/displacement. 48 seconds with full 40% CDR(yeah yeah you can get more).

So damage is somewhat close, unless you wanna compare windows of engage, that's the key difference. At level 18, Live Diana can Full engage Four times as much. You already see if PBE Diana whiffs her R, it significantly cuts down on her damage, the base damage on her E is what sorta hurts her skirmishes, but the scaling isn't helping much. The saving grace is her R can hit multiple people at least.

The damages look the same you say! PBE Passive+E is 770 damage! You don't even have to double dash. Yeah that's great, but Live is 1170 doing passive and Lunar rush. PBE has to double dash to compete with the numbers of live, which we don't really want to do if your R is down. So yeah Pre 6 Diana is great, post 6...ehhhh.

But Ver, neither have to double Rush! True, and this is where it hurts PBE the most. If your just doing a Moonsilver+Crescent+Lunar rush, Live is at 1720. You back off, reset, go kill a camp, whatever. PBE is at 1320...oof, that's a good difference, not including the reduced scaling on Pale cascade, and removal of any type of CC on a reasonable CD.

So we ask ourselves, yeah but Lunar rushes gets a 14 second CD on PBE, you don't need to R to just keep dishing out the harshness! Well sorta...at level 18, Live Diana's CD is on a 15 second cooldown, and she can still choose not to double R, meaning live Diana is still going be doing more damage in skirmishes, and always have CD's for big fights, with much more added safety of having displacement and CC on demand, and not tied with her R.

tldr; Sure PBE Diana pre 6 has a nice damage window, but post 6 it goes downhill sadly :/ Hopefully they look at scaling a bit, or at least some added utility here and there. For having such low damage and scaling, PBE Lunar rush, moonsilver, or Moonfall needs a bit more oomph in it, whether it's utility, CD, or damage. Hey at least Diana has the highest base HP of any diver, if only that helped eh?

Posui Gart11/28/2019, 12:14:51 PM1 votes

She has her dash at lvl3, its enough to compensate whatever 400 damage she lost at lvl18

KFCeytron11/28/2019, 12:24:47 PM1 votes

The point of a rework is to end up with something different. Keeping too much of a champion's "core identity" that prompted the rework in the first place has led to the failure of more than one VGU, like those of Ryze, Akali, Ryze, Irelia, and Ryze. The ideal/expected outcome in a rework is that all the old mains abandon that champ, but many new mains pick it up.

toby mcteague11/27/2019, 9:37:35 PM1 votes

Diana is the assassins that dicks on other assassins. Shes cool.