Do you remember the Renekton bar?

I agree with the Darius bar, but your changes are quite terrible

Darius is able to DO HIS JOB, none of your changes make those juggernaut able to do their job

What mordekaiser right now needs to be at least decent to do HIS JOB which was i remind being an ADC botlane is: -xp passive removed -W double damage nerf reverted -W heal nerf reverted

Darius is actually overtuned. I think his passive AD bonus should be nerfed. And uh, I don't think Yorick needs buffs.

I'd nerf Darius a little bit.

I'd agree that he's the archetypal juggernaut, but I'm thinking more along the lines of Nasus or Yorick for the most balanced.

Yorick has tons of counterplay and outplay in his kit, and can fill multiple roles like Darius. He's not a stat stick like Darius either.

Played as game with with the 'Hecarim' build, rushing Trinity Force before the main jungle item.

It was great. I wasn't as fast or bursty as Hecarim, obviously. Instead of having a big, mid-game spike like Hecarim, I was inescapable with loads of sustained damage, and no one could duel me, even Fiora. It was great.

[{quoted}](name=Lord Kuma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zH4P0u0Z,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-31T18:35:45.861+0000)

How about we make a Darius bar for the juggernauts. A lot of reworked juggernauts are under preforming and they dont fill their niche i got some ideas and want you guys opinion.

Mordekaiser: Make his 3rd strike a small AOE damage and if it kills the target resets as a 3rd strike damage so you can be an actual threat.

fucking no

Garen: Rework his villain system completely remove the %true damage to make him easier to balance, also will help Garen to gain buffs without worrying of him being too powerful. if the target is the villain will do 30% reduced damage to Garen and he gains increased movement speed to the target, and if he execute him with the ultimate it gives AOE 40% slow for 2s.

no

Skarner: just increase his base AS since he was picked in worlds and he seems to do fine in soloq, its just the other junglers are too snowbally like hec, vi and lee

increase his clear speed and sustain for what

Yorick: just reduce his ult CD and improve his AI maiden and ghouls

you will spend your games trying to stop his splitpushing, you will never play league again

Darius is the perfect designed Juggernaut

no, probably not

The problem with the Renekton Bar is that it was a spectacular failure. Riot saw how Ren literally decided who did and did not go top lane, and wanted to buff all top laners up to that level. They then buffed four or five other top laners up to that level, and then had to stop because those guys were just steamrolling games because they were so powerful.

In the end, Riot learned that it was better to tone down one problem champ than to elevate many. Darius is very similar to Ren in that he's the best juggernaut around. In fact, he's a little too good at what he does and his weaknesses don't slow him down like they should. I wouldn't be surprised if the balance team already has a target painted on his back when they come back from vacation next year.

Some juggernauts aren't weak, but unpopular. Skarner is surprisingly strong, but no one plays him because the FDA has filed paperwork to have him labelled as a sleep aid. Yorick is much the same way, but instead of being incredibly boring he's incredibly frustrating instead. The AI on his ghouls and maiden artificially restrict his power since they often wander off and do stupid things when they should be doing something constructive. However, if those AI issues were to be fixed, Yorick would probably get nerfed because the biggest restraint he has is now gone.

Garen is legitimately weak because they indirectly removed power from him via nerfs to his favorite items over the past year. When he did get some compensation buffs earlier this month, they ended up giving him armor shred on his E. That fixed nothing because that wasn't what Garen lost from when he was balanced a year ago. He needs help getting to the backline to attack his villain, not more damage to kill things he shouldn't be attacking first as an anti-carry.

Morde isn't something you can fix with just higher numbers. They mangled his kit. Nothing short of a full VGU is going to save Morde from the trash heap. Although I will say the AI on Morde's ult is incredible. I've seen it change to better targets without me having to attack those targets first, ignore minions and go for enemy champions without being told, and actually zone off enemy champs when they try to enter it's general area. If Yorick's ghouls and maiden had that kind of AI, he'd be pick or ban by the end of next month.

30% damage reduction? How does that stack with his W?

Garen needs a new passive, his villain system is fine.

for solo que, nasus seems to be the most balanced juggernaut out of the bunch right now, when it comes to overall power.

i dont quite agree with the garen changes. removing the villain mechanic even for that would be an overall nerf. it takes something as powerful as the villain mechanic, and even then he cant quite keep up with the other juggs. hence why they hadded to add something like the armor shred on top of that to his kit.

the problem is, just removing the villain mechanic puts garen into a spot where hes entirely generic and doesnt have his own indvidual nieche. you might agree with it or not, but right now it makes him a strategic counterpick against carries, assassins and bruisers who like to snowball and take over games.

since his recent buff, there were legit certain ranked games, where i could pick garen with confidence, and say "this is a good game to pick him". specifically because of his villain mechanic.