Lee Sin - OP in soloQ or not?

Gregor Gysi·12/1/2016, 3:22:45 PM·12 votes·4,688 views
Champion.gg - Lee Sin Jungle Stats, Builds, Runes, Masteries and Counters

Beforehand I'd like to warn you, this is not quite like the other Lee Sin post on the front page, but it is a reaction to it.

Personally, I do not really play Lee Sin, I got mastery 6 on him as I enjoy him in normals occasionally, but my ranked KDA is 4.5 / 7.3 / 5.5 over 4 games of which I won none. I suck with Lee Sin and I certainly am not alone. Regardless, I do not enjoy the bashing that Lee Sin players have to endure ("upvote if you just don't like Lee Sin"..) so here goes.

The statistics that people find the most interesting is his playrate which is an outstanding 37% and then his winrate of 49.8%. Most assume that a high playratio equals inexperienced (and therefore bad) players which would make the winratio seem unproportionally high. But that is simply not the case, Lee Sin players are in average very experienced, in fact Lee Sin has the 5th highest average games played. Considering that it seems kind of weird that he still has a negative winrate - why would the champion with one of the most experienced playerbases have so little success?

Let's keep this question in mind and take a look at how exactly Lee Sin players perform. Those with 1-5 games (the smallest player group) on Lee Sin have a 39% winrate - which is kind of expected. Outside of the boards people consider Lee Sin to be a very demanding champion that isn't made for casual use.

Those with 5-15 games (the second smallest group) have a 46% winrate which is a huge improvement. It appears that once the basic mechanics like wardjumps are not that hard anymore Lee Sin starts not to suck that hard.

Once players are in the biggest group with 15-50 games played they tend to break even with a 51% winrate. Given how high the skill cap is considered to be, one would expect the next groups to perform even better, but..

Both, the 50-125 and the 125+ group have only a 52% winrate. This is in general very mediocre or even below mediocre and also very low considering how high skill cap champions should have a good winrate with that level of experience.

To conclude, it seems that Lee Sin is doing rather mediocre except for his high playrate. You might argue that it is because many of those who play off role just pick Lee Sin as he seems fun, but that really doesn't quite explain the low winrate on the mains. Another possible point would be that his high pickratio means that people pick him even in bad situations so that this decreases his winrate, but seeing how much of an allrounder Lee is this can't be a big gamechanger.

BUT. There is one thing that hasn't been considered yet. And that is, obviously, competetive. Since we are in LCS off season now and IEM isn't all that useful to get competetive data it may very well be possible that Lee Sin is OP on this patch - in competetive. Let's remind ourselves that Lee was a strong pick at worlds despite being way less prominent in soloQ back then. Seeing how the jungle changes all benefit Lee (lvl 3 Krugs; higher jungle experience = better snowball for fast clear junglers) it is very likely that he is a god tier pick in competetive. We can't know for sure, but I think the Krug changes (and hopefully general jungle nerfs) might help with Lee Sin being potentially too strong in competetive. Other than that it's hard to say anything more than that Lee Sin is not OP in soloQ.

tl;dr: Lee Sin is still not easy to play (39% winrate on newbies) and the overall Lee playerbase is very experienced but performs rather poorly; he is not OP. However, it is likely that he is too strong in competetive due to the jungle XP changes, but we can only guess. Let's hope Rito nerfs the jungle.

22 Comments

RexSaur12/1/2016, 6:38:39 PM6 votes

Hes Broken op

Tel Saro12/1/2016, 6:18:30 PM5 votes

Or maybe Lee Sin isn't nearly as high skill capped as people seem to think.

Weave autos Land your ONE skill shot Perfect the Q R flash Q Ward hop

Learn those four things and you pretty much have Lee down.

The stats you quoted support the fact that Lee takes only a handful of games to play reasonably well.

This whole misinformation from both Riot and the low ELO player base that Lee Sin is a high skill cap play maker isn't really true.

I would consider him a playmaker with a medium skill floor and medium skill cap.

WinBoat12/1/2016, 3:31:51 PM2 votes

Not OP. Just strong and flavor of the month, so naturally he is hyped and talked about.

Next month, it will be a different champion talked about for weeks straight until nerfed and so on.

iLLp12/1/2016, 3:26:12 PM2 votes

because in actuality lee sin sucks balls, and only works on people who fall for gimmicks.

doublelift fg12/1/2016, 3:26:34 PM2 votes

his ulti seems to have too much hidden power

he can AA you while he ulti you his ulti has 2 mini-stun

personally i would just want those 2 things to be removed, i don't have too much troubles against lee

Ultîma12/1/2016, 5:46:32 PM1 votes

''He's not OP, he's just stronger than everyone else right now.''

The mental gymnastics of some of these comments are hilarious.

Edit: I don't personnally think Lee Sin has a problematic kit. I think he benefited most from the Kurgs lvl 3 exploit in the jungle. Given that he's an amazing early game ganker, that strategy easily put him at the top of the food chain. I think he's going to get toned down by the experience change currently on the PBE once it ships.

Eedat12/1/2016, 3:37:35 PM1 votes

People just like playing him because he's fun. Same reason why people play Lucian even when he's bad (like now). Not sure all the QQ over him tbh

Unlucky4712/1/2016, 9:53:33 PM1 votes

For me, it's the fact that the largest groups of lee players have a 51% winrate. Because there are so many people with that kind of expierence, they are the most likely to show up on the enemy team. And with lee being on the enemy team all the time, He's just too good at everything. Tank, mobility, damage, utility. He has everything and doesnt give anything up for it. What's really bullshit is his ad scalings on all of his abilities.

So because most lee sin players know what they're doing with him, he's really overbearing in games. Riot should start by nerfing his scaling a little so if lee wants to do damage, he should give up some tank stats or vice versa.

Manadar12/1/2016, 10:20:08 PM1 votes

I might be diamond if I didn't play Lee so often.

Sagan Forever12/2/2016, 3:15:45 AM1 votes

They keep him so weak because if he has a 37% play rate. Same reason thresh, Lucian, and vayne are kept weak usally( they make mistakes every season once in awhile). Because if a champion is both strong and hyper popular then it forces a ban( like azir in pro play).

The Deckowner12/2/2016, 4:27:37 PM1 votes

I really don't care about statistic, the fact that he can QRQ nearly oneshot any jungler at lv6 just makes me hate this champion.

Kharn Skyshatter12/2/2016, 4:49:33 PM1 votes

I think he has a bit much in his kit. Between getting rewarded for using a kick on a tank/bruiser into their team instead of a high priority target, his high base move speed, spellvamp/lifesteal on E, ward hop, %hp execute mechanic is a bit much when its all on one champ.