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Reminder: We want the Orange Essence disenchant values back Riot

Varissar·11/19/2017, 3:43:06 PM·200 votes·4,919 views
Bring back the old value of orange disenchant riot !

We don't forget Riot, and we have yet to listen suggestions to revert this massive issue. For the lazy ones, there is a tl,dr :)

Just as a reminder: After poorly (and that's an euphemism) communicating the changes in OE, a lot of players who didn't expect it have been fucked over so hard for nothing.

Referencing Riot Cactopus statement from this thread

[{quoted}](name=Riot Cactopus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fRZopjhE,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-11-12T18:53:04.273+0000) > This orange essence thing is a spicy one but I'll take my best shot at addressing it. The most honest answer it comes down to is that we wanna be able to spread out orange essence type loot and rewards across multiple systems without having to take an additional huge revenue hit at the same time that we're making runes free.

Runes hitting revenue? Which? Last time I checked, runes could only be bought using IP before preseason.** Only the rune pages were eligible to buy using RP which, oh irony, Riot has kept from the old system (to keep their revenue of course). Perhaps Cactopus was talking about the "free rewards for old runes" and how it has impacted the champion's sales using RP? Perhaps he was referring to the IP boosts sales (which I doubt they represent a 1% of the total revenue)? They delivered the BE compensation as a gift of "good will" and to "make it right" (and avoid public backslash). And now they charge us for it? **A similar analogy here would be being a ONG association who charges their donees.

[{quoted}](name=Riot Cactopus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fRZopjhE,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-11-12T18:53:04.273+0000) >I don't want to make the promise that the orange essence amounts you get will “even out” or be the same as before. There’s way too much variance in the rates that people get OE from mastery and all the other systems for us to say that with a straight face. And the truth is the nerf to OE disenchant rates was significant.

Now they are justifying the ninja-nerf with some PR bullshit about future events delivering free stuff(locked behind tiring and half-assed missions) while they admit THEY CAN'T ASSURE WE WILL GET EQUIVALENT REWARD OF THE SYSTEM BEFORE THE CHANGES. **Basically, they have broken something that was fixed, because rea$ons. **

Hey, didn't you guys thought to change the OE disenchant values WHEN those free events hit live? Some food for thought..

[{quoted}](name=Riot Cactopus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fRZopjhE,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-11-12T18:53:04.273+0000) _>It’s more than we reigned it in to give ourselves wiggle room with these other systems. And honestly, the revenue hit from making runes free was a factor we considered as part of that. The goal is to make rewards systems that feel meaningful, rather than just constantly increasing the amount of stuff we give out every year because player expectations keep rising. _ I've already talked about the revenue hit from runes above, so I won't repeat myself. "Constantly increasing the amount of stuff we give out every year because player expectations keep rising"; dude, don't delude yourself trying to delude us. If we compare Riot the the other significant MOBAs of the market, you are the ones with the least "amount of stuff we give out every year". The vast majority of sensible players don't ask for free stuff and we don't compare your politics that much with compentence BUT beware of using those arguments as they might backfire you quite hard.

[{quoted}](name=Riot Cactopus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fRZopjhE,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-11-12T18:53:04.273+0000) _>It feels icky when we start talking about protecting revenue and budgets and shit, but we’re open to feedback on this stuff. I see basically no one talking about the double drops or bad luck protection that we already added to the system, so I wanna wait for a while for people to get used to the changes. _ No, it doesn't. People get that you are here to make profit first, care about the game second. It is a business and we know it.

The important thing is what your business plan direction is, what consumer rights are you respecting and overall, how you treat your customer Devaluing a virtual currency linked to people's wallets, poorly communicating it (almost as if you weren't even trying just to maximize your profit), changing a system into a RNG fest forcing players to get through the Loot Box system again and again... "Know them by their deeds" or so they say.

And don't get me started with the Double Frequency Up (RNG based) and Pitty Timer(rebated in this very thread as not really that amazing) features. We are grateful Riot. However, some features are still fucking the OE system: Summoner icons and now Emotes (useless cosmetics) who cannot be disenchanted are included in the chests drops, champion shards are still included (even if the probability is reduced, which some people claim to disagree about) and after the BE rework they should be there in the first place. Honor reward system only delivers the ultrarare Grey WW and Medieval Twitch as cosmetics (no, the ward skin is part of your honor rewards which in the first place no one asked for). Does it seem to the player to have the OE devalued and because of that directly devalue their Chests purchases using RP? It may be the case, perhaps, probably, possibly that players feel cheated and frustrated. And more so because most of them didn't even realize what was going on till the preseason launched and checked their own skin tab.

Look, it is even easier than it seems. If they really claim they wanted to lock content to balance the rewards output they should have informed properly and repetitively before the change AND implement the change just before the new "reward event" or whatever hits live. It wasn't that difficult and would have proven Riot's good will. After a shady slimy tactic of forfeit to provide more info, allow me to doubt it.

tl,dr: Riot ninja nerfed the Orange Essence disenchant values while poorly communicating it to the players. It is unacceptable and their excuses to justify it prove to be either greedy or nonsensical. RP users who bought Hextech Chests now have piled up a mountain of devalued skin shards and we have now no reason to buy loot boxes anymore as their value have been cut in half by Riot.

78 Comments

ADC5LUT11/19/2017, 8:26:59 PM37 votes

Yah I was holding onto a bunch of skin shards because I wasn't sure what I wanted... now they're all worthless feels and I still haven't gotten a single skin shard since the preseason started, feels good man.

NaHypochlorite11/19/2017, 6:28:33 PM32 votes

They disguised the fact that they were going to nerf orange essence, bordering on straight-up lying about it. Riot's greed has gotten disgusting.

Purejoyce11/19/2017, 11:23:41 PM22 votes

I understand why they made this change, but considering how vague and misleading (on purpose or not*) they were about it BEFORE* the patch hit the live servers, I think it would be fair to keep the original value of the skin shards that you had before preaseason. And the newly acquired (which means after preseason patch) skin shards can have lowered value. I think that would be a fair middle-ground in this case?

######*notice how they don't have any problem with going in-depth with their explanations AFTER the preseason patch hit the live servers.

ENRAG3DCHICKEN11/19/2017, 8:04:55 PM19 votes

On the bright side, the $20 you spent....

There is no bright side

Yundix11/19/2017, 5:52:40 PM17 votes

I just spent $20 so I could buy some lootboxes, unfortunately I didn't know OE was nerfed or I never would have. The free lootboxes for S ranks provided great rewards, that's why I decided to buy some; they had a nice system where it felt like I would get my moneys worth. Now it feels like i've wasted $20.

Hexs Fortune11/20/2017, 2:40:09 AM12 votes

All I can say is I wish they did a better job of telling us that orange essence was going to be altered. Put it on the front page of the client...

Now I feel like my collected shards have had their value cut in half...and it feels bad man.

Don't tell me you did it because you'll be offering orange essence in events...I already pay real $$ for those event passes

Liveey11/20/2017, 1:57:19 AM11 votes

I got a loot box and opened it, I got lancer hecarim...

:c ok well I want OE Ill buy one more

I get hextech ward skin.

:c long story short I have 0 OE.

Owyn11/19/2017, 10:24:15 PM10 votes

btw, what happened to hextech chests drop rates btw?? got 3 skin shards and no other shards from those so far after rune update [slayer-jinx-unamused]

FkItILL1V911/20/2017, 11:13:11 AM7 votes

I disagree with op 100% The old system gave 1chest per week=5$ skin avg or more thats 50$-150$ (depending on champ/skin shards)per year given to each player that collects them all

and considering skins is the main source of revenue thats alot they're losing And i don't mean losing by -profits just less

And the OP plus alot of others are hypocrites saying this games about revenue expecting a business to be non profit... these guys have free time to play this game instead of doing charity. don't expect riot to do what you clearly do not.

If you have played older games which started out good but eventually lost there playerbase you would know how fast content development could hit a stand-still and you're bitching about skins something that is completely non necessary to enjoy the game... riot could give you all kinds of gifts but they would make the $ somewhere most likely cutting important budgets.

*Content *Anti-Cheat *Network Improvements *Support

Now they are justifying the ninja-nerf with some PR bullshit about future events delivering free stuff(locked behind tiring and half-assed missions) while they admit THEY CAN'T ASSURE WE WILL GET EQUIVALENT REWARD OF THE SYSTEM BEFORE THE CHANGES. Basically, they have broken something that was fixed, because rea$ons.

And this is the most ignorant thing said... They can't assure it because this guy is exactly what you said a PR manager he doesn't make the decisions or have the final say at the least... id assume alot of people have a input on it holders/devs/analyst etc and even then they wouldn't make a split second decision so you can accuse them of breaking something "again" for promising something given little thought.

You're entitled to your opinion but it's best to atleast look at it from both perspectives before crying about it having no ideal.

Guy1 cries for food "necessity" Guy2 "you" cries for an hdtv "Luxury"

See what you're doing crying for a free luxury "and blaming its for profit" when you don't get something you don't need in the first place.

Edit btw when i said op i didn't mean threadstarter, but who ever was talking to the mod... its unclear and idc enough to check.

{quoted}

The most funny is part is the one you mentioned about their revenue being lower because runes are free now. On the one side I would say "does riot really believe people are so stupid they wont understand that you were buying runes for IP which clearly means no real money involved", but then I remember there are still people who think BE system is better, people who think OE changes are justified, people who thought that dynamicq is the best thing that happened and riot did nothing wrong, people who thought that AP galio in his broken state isnt broken at all.

So while you have all good points in your thread you must understand that riot appeals to people like I just mentioned, because a lot of them wont care and will just take for truth everything riot says and a high bunch of others will just be simple fanboys. That leaves really not many players actually understanding the crap riot tries to hide.

Btw by a double drop do they mean getting more BE at milestones like lvl 40 etc? Well If yes then screw it. 6 level ups including lvl 40 I barely managed to get 6300 (6259). Bad luck protection?got 1260 BE only once. for first 3 level ups at lvl 30 it was either bugged or intended to rip people off cause I got much less than 710 BE per level up. I havent got a single skin shard from hextech chest lately not counting one ward skin. From Honor capsule I got a freaking permanently unlocked emote that I wont use ever anyway and few key fragments (that is another problem you mentioned, because it decreases skin shards ratio of appearing). Hextech chests mostly give me some crap 450 champ shards and 15 BE. On top of the fact they lowered skin shards drop they also lowered the OE values you get from them. Legendary shard being a joke? Then look at ultimate shard. Not even 1000 OE. WTF?

#1 i know they make mistakes. the update isn't it imo it's the fact they where unclear with the changes made. new games give out free stuff but i can't recall any established game that gives out 50$+ per year may not seem like alot tbh but the most i have ever gotten in prem items has been 10$-20$ within a year. i can make a list of the 30+ games i have played to prove a point but nah.

#2 i never thought galio was broken and i have not played him once since the revamp but thats because he was never an issue for me to play against. But.... if he was broken it's because it's impossible to balance 40+ champs some games have trouble balancing just 3 with no content being added to affect them later on.

#3 lot of them wont care and will just take for truth everything riot says and a high bunch of others will just be simple fanboys K so the people who don't care about oe because they're not concerned about riot giving handouts and fanboys the ones who are fans of the core gameplay and not unnecessary skins. that only leaves the few all knowing elite who understand they are entitled to the content riot created and the devs who created it shouldn't get any profit.

I mean if this thread was about critical game play affecting the game negatively and riot refusing to listen id understand.

But it amazes me how many of you there is expecting everything handed to them on a silver platter and how many people there is criticising about profit.

Not just here but everywhere 4/5 people do this and it truly amazes me. i mean 4people vs 1 "me" would indicate i'm just completely wrong on this subject... but i can't comprehend how it's right to feel entitled to something you didn't work for and hating on those that actually do the work and it paying off.

ModAcademy Kayn11/20/2017, 1:26:38 AM4 votes

It's a really big assumption for you to say that IP Boost sales only accounted for 1% of their profits. Other than the fact you have no way of knowing that for sure, that's not even where they were getting their profit from. Here's a statement from Ghostcrawler.

https://i.gyazo.com/d50293375e32882319dc4ee3d78fbd71.png

The loss income comes from Champion's bought with RP due to the majority of IP going towards Runes instead. Unless you want to throw another baseless claim with no actual proof behind it, you have no way of knowing just how much money that made Riot. So yeah, they could be lying as well, but doesn't mean you can make a point saying "Oh that didn't make them that much profit", because you have no actual proof to prove that.

You're also looking at this from a Consumer perspective. "1%" of lost sales may not seem like a lot to you, but for a small indie big company it is a significant loss. No company likes losing their bottom line, as they're always aiming for growth, be it more product or more customers. And while it may be only a "1%" loss, that loss of profits can become much larger on a long term outlook. That "1%" doesn't account for future new players of the game, so that 1% could become a 2%, maybe a 4%, though that is all entirely dependent on player growth.

Feel free to call me a Shill or whatever, but I'm just trying to put the perspective of a Business into the argument. I have no personal qualm in this matter, mainly because I'm not disenchanting or buying Loot crates, but I want to add in this one last thing. Vlad once experienced a drop in Winrate, due to a nerf being in the Patch notes, but not actually making it into the Patch itself.

Perception is an incredible variable, be it the feeling of the BE system or a Nerf. Asking people to adjust to something new should be taken seriously, because feelings are a strong factor in our decision making. How we perceive something doesn't always line up with reality, and that needs to be something we're aware of.

Leonerdo11/20/2017, 2:23:13 AM4 votes

The new disenchant values are fine, or at least acceptable. The way they handled the transition however, is far from fine.

A lot of people did indeed get "cheated" out of 40% of the Orange Essence from whatever skin/ward shards that they were holding on to (for whatever reason). There was some warning given, but it wasn't as loud as it could have been. A popup within the client, a mention directly on the Preseason promo page, or a mention in the patch notes and an extra 2 weeks given before the change was made, all would have provided better warning.

And although it would certainly be more difficult, it's possible they could have directly given everyone 40% of the essence value of their existing shards when the patch hit.

So yeah, there were better ways to handle the transition and they should be held accountable for that. (But I'm not convinced yet that the change was a bad one overall. We are getting more shards than ever after all, which to me is more important than essence, since I rarely find a skin shard that I care about.)

ModPeriscope11/20/2017, 3:37:21 AM4 votes

I was caught unawares about the change and didn't really find out about them until I randomly hit the Red Tracker. I was pretty upset about the change, but I do think it's a little early to start getting upset about the change and its effect on shards from this point on.

Atom Knight11/20/2017, 8:09:31 PM3 votes

Its almost like they said for 2 weeks before the change to disenchant anything you didn't want cause they were nerfing it