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Karma vs Kalista

Masuhara·11/5/2014, 3:36:53 PM·5 votes·1,839 views

Scarizard:

The effectiveness of Karma's abilities relied too heavily on your teammates knowing all their nuances. No matter how hard you were carrying with Karma, your teammates had to be just as good with her for you to be super effective. When an ally's confused about whether or not he should run from or pass through your Spirit Bond, we probably made a mistake.

Kalista:

Kalista’s potential is unlocked by solid communication and cooperation with allies rather than raw mechanical skill. While Kalista decides when to answer Fate’s Call, her Soul-Bound, often a support, ultimately decides where it’ll make its impact.

CertainlyT:

But League is a team game. Kalista is for players who enjoy or want to improve at taking the pulse of teammates and working together toward a win. Kalista highlights the cooperative end-state in which she and her ally are most likely to succeed and offers a tool kit to enable players to reach that state.

Contradiction? So one of the reasons for the Karma rework was because she was team reliant on allies in regards to her abilities. Now we see a new champion in the works with a kit mainly focused on this very "problem". I would be interested in seeing a riot response to this contradiction.

9 Comments

DrNova11/5/2014, 9:26:17 PM2 votes

I disagree. Old Karma was just a mess. Rework helped a good deal.

Kalista, the only thing the ally needs to know is when to activte after grabbed. If they decide they dont see an oppertunity, they can "ult out" backwards or somewhere NOT in the middle of the enemy. Seems pretty simple to me.

Masuhara11/6/2014, 12:30:37 PM2 votes

I don't think old Karma was a mess, reread the CertainlyT comment I posed and sub out Kalista for Karma, her old kit certainly fit that description. The rework helped her loose a unique identity she had.

She was not worthless on her own. In comparison you might say Kalista may be worthless without teammates. An early game solo lane Karma was able to hold her own just fine regardless of the match up. When the game transitioned into grouping up her versatility would just get accentuated. The new Karma design does not offer greater synergy with teammates than the older version. Let me explain. The new version offers one ability that interacts with allies which is the mantra'd shield. It requires a mantra to use and offers an aoe shield and speed boost. The old version could similarly speed boost her entire team without a mantra using her tether. She could supply a shield however only to one target but with a much greater ratio attached to it, and also supply an aoe heal of % missing health which I would argue is much better than a aoe shield. The new version has one ability that interacts with allies compared to the older version which had three, making the older version superior in regards to synergy with teammates.

The only flaw concerning old Karma was not with her but with popular play styles. Solo top, solo mid, adc and support bot, and a jungle in particular. While being perfectly capable of solo laning, her kit seemed tailor made to duo with a tanky mobile top (shen, renekton, mao ect.) which just isn't the popular play style. It would seem to me that Riot is taking another crack at making a team reliant / interactive champion. Adc's and supports are a staple of duo bot lanes so sure it makes sense, could work, and be popular. What happens if popularity changes and adc's become solo mid laners? Will Kalista become useless even though there is another "grouping up" stage to the game. Will she get a rework and loose the interaction she had with ally teammates?

The most upsetting thing to me is Riots contradiction. They are akin to these shrewd politicians during voting season. Opening old wounds of old Karma fans and contradicting themselves at the same time.

Masuhara11/12/2014, 4:26:08 PM2 votes

Her short range cone was fine in mid and good in top vs. all the popular picks including rumble. Later in the game you could still use it offensively if the situation fit, as well as healing your entire team while besieging an inhib tower, which is pretty substantial. She could previously provide a speed boost to her entire team as a well as a slow to the enemy team. All 3 abilities were AOE with great ratio's, which if played in synergy with teammates really provided alot. All these interactions made her quite unique, a trait she lost with the rework. A rework partially done because the kit required a bit of teamwork. And now a new champion mainly based on teamwork / interaction. Why Riot?

7thHeaven11/5/2014, 7:42:31 PM1 votes

Old karma's mate: What does this link do? Kalista's mate: What does this link do?

RITO: Better remove karma

JustMyBassCannon11/6/2014, 3:29:23 AM1 votes

Old Karma was not just "reliant" on teammates.

She was halfway worthless without teammates. Literally half of her spell's effects were minimal if not completely unusable without an allied unit, and the other half were still better used on an ally (i.e. shield-bombing your teammate because longer range nuke).

The new Karma design is not only able to function on her own, but actually has greater synergy with teammates than her old design.

As far as Kalista is concerned, I don't know if making her kit team-reliant is going to be a good idea, but it seems a lot better for a marksman than a support (especially one as poorly designed as the old Karma design, says this particular old Karma player).