Is there any hope for Sona players?

Orreos·Jan 23, 2018·17 votes·4,294 views

To preface all of this, I've mained/one-tricked/whatevered Sona for the past 3 seasons. I have over 1,000,000 mastery on her alone and I can definitely say that right now she feels awful. Her overall winrate comes out to about 48% (ranging from 39.5% 0-20 min. to 56% at 40+), and the future looks bleak. Meddler has stated that they're looking at nerfing Manaflow Band, which at the moment Sona is super dependent on to not be constantly out of mana in lane, as well as Kleptomancy and Magical Footwear. These changes, while clearly not direct nerfs to Sona, would further weaken the tools she has to try to stay afloat early. Combined with the removal of Queen's Tribute (Frostfang quest reward) with the upcoming patch, things only seem to be going downhill.

Sona's early game feels awful to play through. She gets outclassed in lane at everything by specialist supports--and they do it all for less mana. While her late game is still good, the fact that you feel useless early basically counter-acts that. Even if she's a scaling champion now, she still has an absurdly low early win-rate for one. Nasus and Veigar, for example, both have 50% 0-20 minute winrates which generally scale up from there. In other words, she just feels like she suffers far too much for what her late game is.

I know that I'm not the only one who feels this way because I also frequent r/SonaMains as well as their Discord and have seen several threads with long time one-tricks leaving, to beginners asking whether learning Sona was worth it. The general sense I've gleamed from them and myself is one of despair and my real question is:

Is there anything planned?

Meddler has been silent on the matter of Sona in recent gameplay thoughts, other than the slight buff she's getting on the PBE (which is really just a partial revert of her mana cost nerf)--which he mentioned over a patch ago.

I hate to sound melodramatic, but seeing champions like Viktor and Volibear apparently fall by the wayside doesn't reassure me much. As much as I sympathize with them and am not trying to say that Sona deserves buffs any more than they do, I'd hate to see another champion fall to their level in the first place.

If it helps at all I feel like pretty much anyone who plays Sona (myself at the very least) would be perfectly happy with sacrificing some late power and actually giving her something early if necessary. Overall though, I (and many others) feel that Sona could really use some attention.

Thanks for reading!

64 Comments

Done25Jan 23, 201816 votes

Sona's kit needs a real form of skill expressing before it can be allowed to be powerful.

OrreosJan 23, 20189 votes

Being allowed to be powerful is one thing, but being allowed to not be garbage shouldn't be dictated by skill floor/ceiling. Yes, Sona has a low effective skill floor/ceiling--but at the same time she relies so heavily on positioning and game knowledge to use her kit effectively and not instantly die in fights. I'm not arguing that Sona is a mechanically intensive champion, I'm just saying that playing her effectively comes down to a hell of a lot more than mashing buttons.

JabaTheHatJan 23, 20183 votes

Said "Positioning and game knowledge" also apply to other squishy ranged champions who are mechanically harder. Xerath is just as squishy as Sona but his abilities all need aiming. Azir is also just as squishy as Sona but he is obviously so much harder.

Some mechanically easy champions do indeed need better game knowledge in order to be effective --- a good example is Nunu with his counter jungling. But Sona is just strictly easier than the vast majority of champions in both mechanics and game sense.

Done25Jan 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Being allowed to be powerful is one thing, but being allowed to not be garbage shouldn't be dictated by skill floor/ceiling. Yes, Sona has a low effective skill floor/ceiling--but at the same time she relies so heavily on positioning and game knowledge to use her kit effectively and not instantly die in fights. I'm not arguing that Sona is a mechanically intensive champion, I'm just saying that playing her effectively comes down to a hell of a lot more than mashing buttons.

Sona is one of those champs. The ones who walk a very fine line between "useless" and "unbeatable" as he kit is fundamentally broken.

For example. I dare you to list one single skill based form of out playing her attack, Q, Chord combo at levels 1 and 3. And I don't mean skill in the form of Yas windwall or Braum shield. Here's a hint. You can't. At best you can hope the Sona is so inept that she burns her Q/attack on minions instead of you.

She as no meaningful counterplay beyond "Stay out of range.".

Signed, a player who got into Gold via Sona one trick with like an 80% win rate.

RedCycloneJan 23, 201810 votes

Sona is a victim to knee-jerk nerfs this preseason

All the damage has been done to her kit already and yet they are still nerfing every rune she touches, a great example of bias from Riots part as they did not drop the nerf hammer as hard on any other preseason offenders, everyone saw that Sona's winrates had normalised to around 52% before the destructive "kill her Q" nerfs, a lot of pro player rundowns on the patch questioned why the hell Sona was getting nerfed in the first place let alone it being such a severe nerf

The nerfs also heavily effected full AP Sona to the point where it cannot be played in botlane anymore because she needs so much gold to scale and you are more or less just a free bag of gold for the enemy botlane if they are smart

I fear for the future as I can't shake the feeling after the slight mana revert Sona is going to be doomed into mediocrity while everyone cites that a 48% winrate isn't bad and people tell you to play Nami instead if you want a better support, motherfucker i just wanna play my waifu

OrreosJan 23, 20184 votes

^THIS.

Sona is looking like she's going to fall into the classic Riot Balance Team move (aka. pulling a Sejuani) of introducing something > the champion becoming strong > nerfing said champion > then nerfing what made them strong and not compensating the champion afterwards.

Edgelordof3dgeJan 24, 20181 votes

Man, i completely relate to every word of this. Sona is the only champion ive ever been halfway good at after years of playing this darn game. Thinking i might take a break from 5's and play Twisted Treeline moar

General Esdeath Jan 23, 20183 votes

rework her already, we've done this dance so many times

OrreosJan 23, 20181 votes

Ok, and how would you suggest that be done? Saying a champion needs a rework can't be a bandaid solution to everything. Mainly because there are several other champions that desperately need reworks as is, but also because she doesn't need one. This whole 'song and dance' has been done once, and that was when she got her rework that removed the Armor/MR and AD/AP from her W and Q, etc. The second rework wasn't because she was overpowered, but because she needed something to do late game other than be a walking ult (trust me, I watched every step of that one like a hawk). The extra movespeed on her E as well as having the ability to cast lots of small spells that make a large impact overall was what gave her that something. Even at the height of the Ardent Censer meta nobody was complaining about Sona specifically because she still had the same weaknesses she always had. The issue is that the nerfs have gone too far and should (at least in my view) be at least refunded if she's not buffed in some other way.

General Esdeath Jan 23, 20183 votes

See, I could suggest a rework but Riot's champ philosophy for her is confusing. Do they want a battle mage? A healer? A utility champ with CC and speed/slows? Why does she have one skill shot? She can't be a jack of all trades, have no skill shots aside from one with a big instant hit box, and have high numbers.

OrreosJan 23, 20181 votes

I'll agree that the philosophy is a bit confusing, but at the same time it's good to leave a champion room to be built multiple ways (in Sona's case mid or support). As for the Jack of all Trades thing I'm not saying she should have high numbers, I'm saying that she should have the potential to specialize in one and be B to A tier at that one. There are always going to be S tier supports in specific things but the aspect of Sona's kit that fills her niche is the ability to do multiple at the expense of strength. The issue with her right now is how hard of a time she has reaching even that B tier level of anything in lane. Her sustain is garbage for how much mana it costs (albeit still slightly better than nothing, but not being helped by Relic Shield/Fleet Footwork meta), and she gets out-poked by supports that aren't even meant to be poke supports (ex. Nami).

A side note, her ult is really only good for kills when you're in lane. Upon reaching 6 the utility she gains is matched by any other enchanter support--the difference being that Sona's ult has a lot harder time saving herself/her lane partner from ganks or dives (ex. Soraka R heal, Janna R knockback + heal, Lulu knockup + health). Unless you combo it with an E power chord or something like a Caitlyn trap, her ult will stop the enemy jungler (or laner depending on who is closest) for 1.5 seconds before they flash in and kill you. Her ult makes a much better engage in lane than disengage. (Also, not to be nit-picky, but her ult does have a cast time...)

General Esdeath Jan 23, 20182 votes

But that's the thing, being a jack of all trades in League includes everything scaling with one stat. If her damage scaled with AP and her heal increased based on missing HP she could choose to go for just one thing, but as it currently is she's either OP or UP.

OrreosJan 23, 20181 votes

True. Having everything scale with one stat does make things harder to balance, but at the same time her W healing scales much better with healing amplification items than with raw AP (hence why the base numbers are so low). In general the introduction of healing amp. items was a good decision on Riot's part because it means that you can have healers who don't have to have insane AP scalings on everything or have to build a ton of AP to boost their heals. (Also fun fact, her W actually used to scale off % missing health before her CDR changes!) Imo Riot could actually stand to add more healing amp. support items.

hoyohaiJan 23, 20182 votes

You must push through

It doesn't matter how nerfed she gets you must push through

If you somehow win when she's this bad you'll demolish everyone when she gets buffed

OrreosJan 23, 20181 votes

That's 100% what I've been doing. I played her 9 games of my placements (only one I didn't she was picked) and got placed higher than I've been before (mostly just because my normal MMR got higher than my ranked lol). I am determined.

hoyohaiJan 23, 20181 votes

Good job

I am awaiting possible Ryze nerfs (constantly being picked in lcs) so I will have to do this as well

lilneopolitanJan 23, 20182 votes

Sona was the first support i picked up when i started getting sick of ADCing and honestly, she is by far the most fun support/champ i have ever played. i LOVE her, and i do agree with everything youve stated. i dont think it would be easy at all at this point to mid sona considering you can only use your Q to actually clear a wave at this point, and its barely even possible. she is in my opinion the ideal support with all her skills, but early game shes too unsafe. unless you know the champ youre matched up against in your lane to a T, youre absolutely toast. her w barely does anything in the beginning, her q is a great poke but nothing more, her e is great but severely misunderstood/overlooked but that might just be an elo thing, and DONT GET ME STARTED on teammates that rely on your R or W when you hit like Q twice and youre basically out of mana. All game, im basically investing in mana regen and some AP. she does need some help thats for sure.

KuboxJan 23, 20182 votes

I've actually been having some form of success simply maxing heal. With the whole sustain meta we got bot right now, it doesn't turn her into a healbot (adcs can sustain for themselves) as much as simply makes her able to brush off weak ganks as well as make her stronger in longer fights. Damage is still acceptable as Sona's passive was always the bigger beast and, while it's still a noticeable impact, it does look healthier than before.

Sona should also not be affected too much by the coming Klepto nerfs, as from what I'm understanding, Meddler's comment was about making it give less items to the biggest abusers of the items (GP, Ez), so I'm assuming that means item gains themselves are gonna get a cooldown. Since Sona tends to stay away from AAs until her passive, I would assume that she would not be affected by this outside of skirmishes (which is where Klepto can get dumb anyway).

All this to say, while she's no longer as good, I don't think she's hopeless. The Manaflow changes could hurt her, but that's in the same patch as no more Sightstone (Lack of Spellthief quest does scare me a bit though, as that was amazing on her, but that would apply to 90% of it's users). As a bonus, as long as ADCs are building Relic's, she gets to get her items much easier, which definitely helps a ton.

It Hertz When IPJan 23, 20181 votes

Some of those items were helping Sona stay alive in lane, mostly the potions. And ADCs aren't going to be building Relic much longer, if Riot has anything to say about it.

PokladnicaZlaJan 23, 20182 votes

I just checked her statistics on LoLKing for Diamond and she seems to hold a fairly decent winrate. She seems to suck on EUNE,but on NA,EW and KR she's doing fine.

LankPantsJan 23, 20183 votes

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/diamond/plus/champion/Sona/

Yeh, no, she's not.

PokladnicaZlaJan 23, 20181 votes

˝**Sona has a win rate 48.05% for Platinum+ players whilst the very best Sona's are earning a win rate of 51.90% **with the average rank of these top players being in Diamond IV.

LoLalytics ranks Sona at 119 amongst all champions earning a tier grade of Silver.

This ranking takes into account the win rate of Platinum+ players, the pick/ban influence of Sona, the win rate and average rank of the best Sona players.˝ from the link you provided

chipndip1Jan 23, 20183 votes

{quoted}

˝**Sona has a win rate 48.05% for Platinum+ players whilst the very best Sona's are earning a win rate of 51.90% **with the average rank of these top players being in Diamond IV.

LoLalytics ranks Sona at 119 amongst all champions earning a tier grade of Silver.

This ranking takes into account the win rate of Platinum+ players, the pick/ban influence of Sona, the win rate and average rank of the best Sona players.˝ from the link you provided

For Diamond she's like 47%ish

Also, her play rate's even worse than before the mini-rework at this point.

RedCycloneJan 23, 20183 votes

LoLKing

Well there is your problem Also don't use Champ.gg, that site is a travesty

Linna ExcelJan 23, 20182 votes

Rushing an early item 3070 seems to be your best option now.

RedCycloneJan 23, 20182 votes

Really is a drag to be forced to buy Tear early when your champion is already gated by needing much more gold and XP then anyone else in the support role

Linna ExcelJan 23, 20182 votes

item 3098 or item 3096 first then item 3070 . A completed item 3003 not only gives you a bunch of mana, but also that refund. Considering how spammy sona gets, it really is a good item for her.

Miku Hime samaJan 24, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z3BMX5KN,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2018-01-23T17:01:56.344+0000)

Rushing an early seems to be your best option now.

"Best" option or "least-worst" option, it all depends on your perspective. The actual "best" option for playing Sona is to not play Sona; perhaps play Nami or Bard instead. That's what I've been doing since her 1st rework made her unplayable.

Don LupusJan 23, 20181 votes

Sona is basically a faceroll champ that gets a lot of damage and healing power more or less for free and with a lot of safety. She needs to position and to watch her mans and that's it. Any other supports need to do that and their skills demand more than just to press a button. Early game she can destroy a Soraka with her Q/Powerchord and then heal without trading more than mana. So I don't think she deserves any buffs that give her even more safety/power

RedCycloneJan 23, 20181 votes

Sona is basically a faceroll champ that gets a lot of damage and healing power more or less for free and with a lot of safety.

Yeah I forgot about Sona being able to have a 0 cooldown blink to get out of every situation with safety after poking, she has so much mobility no one can do anything when she gets in 550 range to deal her damage and there is literally 0 counterplay to it

Oh WAIT

Don LupusJan 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yeah I forgot about Sona being able to have a 0 cooldown blink to get out of every situation with safety after poking, she has so much mobility no one can do anything when she gets in 550 range to deal her damage and there is literally 0 counterplay to it

Oh WAIT

So she's "weak" cause she's not OP? Lol ok

Daddy Tie Me UpJan 23, 20181 votes

Sona is for thrash players and it should be treated like a thrash. No spamming your keyboard in teamfight isnt skill. No counting to 3 isnt sill. No hitting ult wide as lane isnt skill. If sona feels awful to you then it should be that way. Along with Janna and Soraka, those 3 champs should be thrash tier simply for how simple their kits are. Highest sona, soraka, janna main should not be higher than silver 1.

Jerry SeinfeIdJan 23, 20183 votes

good thing cait is hard...

Daddy Tie Me UpJan 23, 20181 votes

and where is that comming from? Because my avatar is pulsefire caitlyn? Yeah I love caitlyn but I dont play her anymore and I do not intend to because of what bot lane became. And yes Caitlyn compared to sona soraka or janna is arguably harder champion.

Jerry SeinfeIdJan 23, 20181 votes

You have a cait picture and your name is ace in my hole, gee why would anyone assume you're a cait main.

Harder than sona? sure, most champs are harder than sona and cait has to count till 6. for those into more advanced math, that's twice as much as sona.

please, sitting in lane while you place 3-5 traps under someones turret forcing them to either watch their turret go down or take a shit ton of free dmg isn't hard.

and incase you fucked up, just dash away.

Even a simplistic kit has in depth aspects. And if everything points to you maining a very fucking simple adc (who ppl consider the easiest to farm with btw) just stfu about other ppls champion or atleast try to offer a solution.

Daddy Tie Me UpJan 24, 20181 votes

As I said before and I am gona say it again. I dont main Caitlyn anymore. I dont even main ADC anymore. I just like Caitlyn. My solution is : Nerf Soaraka and Janna and Sona even further to match their power to the effort required.

RedCycloneJan 23, 20182 votes

Well looky here, a "Sona is a easy champion and should be a shit champion because of it" post

WHO WOULDA THUNK IT

Daddy Tie Me UpJan 24, 20181 votes

And? what is wrong with that? Effort is rewarded by power of champion. By that logic sona should be slightly stronger than minion. I dont understand what you guys want more. Braindead combos obvious strategy when fighting easy to hit skillshot. Do you want to know what champion is rewarded for effort? Thresh. Play him thousand times and you will see what it is like to play something actually difficult. And you will also finally understand why those sonas who faced you should have been thrash. Because in order for you to win a lane you had to time your skillshots instead of her poking your AD every chance it had, you had to use your lantern strategically to save your ad instead of her spamming W if it had mana, and you have to hit your skillshots in order to even use your ult properly, instead of her flash ulting whole team just because its width is bigger than my dick.

RedCycloneJan 24, 20182 votes

Because the game has so many more variables then just looking at a champions difficulty and equating it to viability

Sona is simple, true, however she has many downsides that are just as simple to combat against - Just hit her back is possibly the simplest form of counterplay

Also with a vision of "difficult heros should be overpowered, simple ones underpowered" would make the game beyond stale with a shitty meta, you would effectively make 100+ champions obsolete and I think LoL prides itself on keeping the number of viable champions as high as possible

Daddy Tie Me UpJan 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Because the game has so many more variables then just looking at a champions difficulty and equating it to viability

What variables? You are playing same map over and over again with same class of team mate on your lane over and over again. If bot lane was occupied by other class than marksman then I would say that yes, supports have to adapt. Except they dont. There is no variability in this game that makes you change your playstyle accordingly. As sona your whole play style boils down to spamming your abilities when they are off cooldown and you have mana. And if you say choosing stance to apply slow or more dmg or dmg reduction on your passive is that variability, let me remind you that you had to spam your spells before first. Spamming your skills off cooldown to either heal or deal damage isnt skill. Even chimp would figure that out.

Sona is simple, true, however she has many downsides that are just as simple to combat against - Just hit her back is possibly the simplest form of counterplay

Just hit her back amirite? Do you know why she is in shit state now? She has been finally nerfed so she doesnt output more damage on lvl 1 to 9 againist most adcs. And thats with no items. I fucking loved when sone Q auto me for 1/5th of my hp my support incapable of doing anything because her Q range is bigger that Caits AA range and her auto range, when timed on the point when adc is taking cs, gives her enough time to escape from enemy auto range.

Also with a vision of "difficult heros should be overpowered, simple ones underpowered" would make the game beyond stale with a shitty meta, you would effectively make 100+ champions obsolete and I think LoL prides itself on keeping the number of viable champions as high as possible

So kinda like it is right now? With dumb low CD low mana cost spamming cancerous champions with non existent skillshots dominating top lane instead of actual hard to play bruisers? Or how Twitch and tristana with 0 skillshots and just AA buffs being top tier adcs? Or Janna Soraka and Sona, champions with arguably dumbest kits ever in game dominated whole LCS , noone was happy about it aside from twitch eGirls who achieved diamond with silver 1 game knowledge? Top lane is dominated by 6 dumbest champions in game. Support is finally starting to look like a lane that actually requires effort. Why should dumb, easy champs dominate the game instead of those, who you have to practice day by day?

Jerry SeinfeIdJan 23, 20181 votes

Tbf she's just downright annoying. You press a button and all the counterplay to it is "don't be near her". I main jinx and singed so i'm really not gonna talk about skillshots but sona takes it even further by not even having to target someone.

This makes it hard to balance her. She'll faceroll lower elo's once she becomes strong. She's also just not fun to play against. She hits hard and hits you easily. The only thing you have to keep in mind is which powered autoattack you use and your ult.

Tbh she can keep her aura playstyle on both the MS boost and heal but her aura damage REALLY has to go imo. turn it into a heimer style skillshot maybe?

xelakerJan 23, 20181 votes

the counter play is to not just run away every single time the support boops a 50 damage spell at you. she's pretty squishy and if she has to heal often she's going oom.

Jerry SeinfeIdJan 23, 20181 votes

yeah, that's only 10% of my hp after all.

xelakerJan 23, 20181 votes

and you can easily do more right back to her, or take the Q and back off for the auto since the auto is the real damage. obviously you can't back off for her crescendo, but she isn't this all powerful beast man.

Rathar DashingJan 23, 20181 votes

Are you still maxing Q first on Sona? I've found that if I go Q-W-E-Max W-Max Q-Max E then she feels much better in lane, since the nerfs to her Q are much less noticeable here. Her passive still deals considerable damage, and all that extra healing really helps out in lane, protecting you from ganks, poke lanes, and allowing you to survive until you hit the late game.

RedCycloneJan 23, 20181 votes

Try asking someone who has played Sona since season 1 and enjoys playing full AP Sona to max their W over Q

WE KNOW playing like a backline bitch for 30 mins is the best thing to do right now with Sona, is it enjoyable? not in the slightest for someone who uses Sona as a offensive damage dealer for all this time So forgive me for maxing Q and trying to be the offensive support Sona has always been able to do for her whole existence

Rathar DashingJan 24, 20181 votes

Jeez, sorry. Just trying to help.

I've been playing Sona since I started playing League (around s5) and I've always liked maxing Q more for the damage. I also like building tonnes of AP and Sorc shoes to deal tonnes of damage. Maxing W first doesn't change my playstyle at all, you can still go in for a large poke of damage with powerchord Q since its damage is level dependent, not rank dependent. What I'm saying is you trade off a little bit of damage for much better sustain in lane, which will get you to that ultimate fantasy of going around with full AP and chunking people with your Q.

With the recent Sona buff, maxing Q first might feel good again, I'll have to check, but the changes to support items and the Klepto nerf is gonna throw off my perception a bit.

RedCycloneJan 24, 20181 votes

Eh don't read too much into it

I see a lot of backhanded comments on saying "Max W over Q" as if somehow now W is a great ability to rank up, it's that Q was knocked down to be as costly as W Also doesn't help when you get a clueless adc who thinks it's your job to be their health bar and get mad at you for not maxing W

Point is with a mana hungry Q, nothing really matters what you rank up because everything is terrible to rank up

Rathar DashingJan 24, 20181 votes

I always ask my adc if they want me to play like an extra health bar, and if so I pick Janna or Nami, because they both have much better healing/shielding. I just think W feels better to max first now because of how much she needs to hit late game now.