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What Counts as a "Dash?"

Barbarian J·12/18/2015, 4:14:46 AM·2 votes·8,123 views

With the release of the Poppy rework, I have encountered an issue with the terminology that League uses. Up until now there were no implications to it, so it mattered little. However, with Poppy's new W, Steadfast Presence, the issue is relevant.

"Poppy gains bonus movement speed for 2.5 seconds and generates a barrier around her for the duration, causing all enemies who dash within to be knocked down (airborne) and dealt magic damage. This can only happen once per enemy champion."

The use of the word "dash" here, as the title suggests, is what bothers me. What really counts as a "dash?" Somewhere in the game code these abilities are coded to act a certain way. Something determines what is a "dash," what is a "blink," and what is a "jump." Which is which, and how we can we know? I am seeking clarity.

When I bring this up, the first thing people have said is "things that are dashes are dashes, and blinks are not dashes." They often point to Ezreal's E, Arcane Shift, and Flash (the summoner spell) as things that will not get blocked. Luckily, Arcane Shift uses the word "blink."

Flash however, uses the word "teleport." Many argue this is basically "evaporating, moving, and reforming." As in you cannot be targeted while it happening, or a "blink."

What then does that make of Maokai's W, Twisted Advance? "Maokai dashes to the target enemy, becoming untargetable..." So here was have a dash wherein the caster is untargetable. How does Poppy interact with blocking dashes but characters that cannot be targeted? Why isn't this a blink? Is it the travel time? What is an "untargetable dash" coded like?

Vi's Q, Vault Breaker, and her ultimate, Assault and Battery, both use the words "Vi dashes." Can Vi's ultimate be broken by this?

LeBlanc's W, Distortion, reads "LeBlanc dashes to the target location... LeBlanc blinks to Distortion's return pad." Here we would expect it to block the dash in, but allow her to return without issue.

Kha'zix "leaps to the target location," but is a leap a type of dash, or a type of blink? Tristana however is said to "dash to the target location." Is this a "dash?" Or is it a "leap?" Quinn is said to "dash to the target... before leaping back." Is the "leap" a "dash," or a "leap?" Is Quinn's E really a different code category than Tristana's Rocket Jump?

I have seen a Nautilus get blocked by Poppy, however his ability reads "drags both himself and the opponent close together." Is a "drag" a "dash?" Amumu "pulls himself to the target," is a "pull" a "dash?"

Malphite "ferociously charges to a location." Is a "charge" a "blink?" Or is a "charge" more like an "untargetable dash?"

Shyvana "takes flight." Is taking flight a leap? Or is it dashing? Or is it a new category?

Tryndamere "slices," Nocturnes "launches," Rek'sai both "tunnels," and also "travels at incredible speed," and Sion "charges."

Even the Poro King summoner spell uses the word "dash." Just today I was able to use that spell to "dash" to the King himself, as if Poppy wasn't even there. Why is this dash just called "dash," when clearly it is something more. There seems to be a disparity here in the wording, which makes determining what is a "dash" and what is not difficult. I am seeking clarity.

What makes a "dash" be a dash? What makes a "leap" be a leap, and not a dash? What makes a "charge" be a charge, and not a dash, and not a blink? How many categories are there?

I am seeking clarity.

32 Comments

Abyssphere12/18/2015, 4:25:13 AM4 votes

So ... you're seeking clarity, right?

"What makes a "dash" be a dash? What makes a "leap" be a leap, and not a dash? What makes a "charge" be a charge, and not a dash, and not a blink? How many categories are there?"

They're all dashes except blinks. That's it. Tooltips use different words because tooltips are an attempt at describing an ability in a way that explains what it does in obvious terms, rather than a way to make the specific characteristics of a spell obvious. If you dash, leap, or charge somewhere, Poppy's W will block you. If you blink or teleport (Flash) somewhere, it will not. If you have a form of mobility that involves you quickly travelling from point A to point B, Poppy will stop it. If your mobility involves you appearing at point B from point A without actually traversing the distance, she won't stop it.

Exceptions = various ults because stuff like Malph and Vi's ults are supposed to be unstoppable. Anything that is "unstoppable" will ignore Poppy. Maokai's dash will also ignore it because he becomes untargetable.

Centuros12/18/2015, 4:23:54 AM4 votes

Rule of thumb: if you physically move through the intervening area, it is a dash, while if you disappear and reappear at your target location, it is not. However (and this is the confusing part), many dashes are supposed to be unstoppable, due to awesome; as such, I'm pretty sure Malphite and probably Vi get free passes to ult however they want, and Nocturne and Rek'Sai's ults are coded to ignore everything in the way (thus they aren't stopped by Veigar cage or Poppy or Azir ult, etc. because it would feel stupid to be stopped in your map-long flight by something incidentally being in the way).

Tl;dr: there really isn't clarity if you bring ults into the mix, otherwise it SHOULD be simple (unless spaghetti code).

Ice Weasel X12/18/2015, 4:31:17 AM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Barbarian J,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yzWFIXKn,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-12-18T04:14:46.112+0000)

#What Counts as a "Dash?"

I am seeking clarity.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CV_P06xUEAEHtbv.jpg

dunkeroni12/18/2015, 4:46:00 AM2 votes

From what I have seen in game, the distinction seems to match this:

**Anything that would get stunned by Veigar's cage counts as a Dash, not a blink or teleport. **Outliers may be things like Yasuo's ult (which I have not yet seen against a poppy block). Yas is able to jump through Veigar's cage but will still have the stunned effect on him while he deals damage with his ult. Leblanc will be stopped while trying to dash in, but she can blink back out as it is instant.

That definition really just shows what Doesn't count as a teleport, not really what Does count as a dash.

To sort out what causes a 'Dash' that would trigger instead of just waltzing through, it has to do with targeting. A regular movement is something that you can cancel and control midway. A Dash is something that you target and your character moves for you, then you regain control afterwards. Nautilus's grab counts as this because he will always pull himself to the midway point if possible (not blocked beforehand). Even if he grabs the dragon, he will 'dash' to the halfway point between them and the dragon will stay the same. So that ability applies a pull to the enemy, and a dash to himself.

Keep in mind that certain abilities (usually ults) make you not just untargetable buy "unstoppable". For instance Sion's ult (Unstoppable Onslaught) makes him 'unstoppable' and immune to any CC, and Poppy's shield does count as a knockback CC. Malphite and Vi as well become 'unstoppable' and immune to CC during their ult charges, which is why Poppy cannot block them.

Tristana and Kha'zix should be blocked, but I can't confirm it. Do note that tristana can actually jump out of a blitzcrank grab after being hit by it, so her history of not being affected by CC during the jump may play precedent.

Maokai's Twisted Advance says 'untargetable' but it does seem more like 'unstoppable' is the code behind it. His model goes away and visually he appears to shoot underground.

Rek'Sai ult, after the initial channeling time, seems to make her 'unstoppable' as well.

These rules should not apply to an enemy that is being pulled into poppy (I.E. blitzcrank grab). It is very likely that the summoner spells in Poro King count as Pulls, not Dashes since you are not 'Dashing' to a specific (X, Y) location on the map, instead you are being continuously 'Pulled' towards the Poro King or the Enemy Champion you targeted until you get there. In addition to this, Nocturn's ult would be coded similarly as a continuous pull.

I would go so far as to say that Except in the case of being moved by an enemy: Anything that can go through Azir's Ult can penetrate Poppy's Block. For a rather outdated list, try this: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2icovr/list_of_all_abilities_that_can_go_over_azirs/

The only outlier I know of from this rule is that Rek'Sai can dig under Poppy's bock, but cannot dig under Azir's ult. EDIT: This was evidently removed, Rek'Sai can no longer bypass poppy's block.

Desiderium12/18/2015, 5:51:54 AM1 votes

  1. The "issue" has been relevant since Azir's release.

  2. Dashes are exactly what common sense would tell you. They are different from blinks because blinks are teleports. No way to block teleports. But you can block a moving character. Khazix jump, Poppy charge, etc. any mobility spell that leads you from one place to the other over time (i.e. not instant) is a dash and is affected by dash-preventing abilities, unless you are untargetable.

ABlueQuaker12/18/2015, 1:02:15 PM1 votes

If you really have such a hard time figuring out what it stops and what it doesn't, go into a custom game against a Veigar. Anything that doesn't get stopped by Event Horizon isn't a Dash in the whole Dash vs. Blink sense.

Poppy is trash tier now anyway, so I'll gladly take that Dash-prevention any day.

Catastrop12/18/2015, 1:05:34 PM1 votes

Physically moving from one place to the next. The only exceptions to dashes, are Malph and Vi's Ult as those make them cc immune. Everything else is fair play.

WarlockLaw12/18/2015, 6:37:24 PM1 votes

Haven't we learned anything from windwall? Riot has very poor word choice and specific interactions are done by different ppl leading certain things to not make sense. All I can suggest is to memorize every scenario and proceed from there

Malix Farwin12/19/2015, 4:41:06 AM1 votes

If pretty easy to tell the difference between a dash and a blink. Hell if you wanted to suddenly bring this up now and pass it off as "irrelevant because a champion didn't have this mechanic" i would have to correct you and mention Veigar's stun works the exact same way.

Lauricella312/19/2015, 4:59:48 AM1 votes

if you cannot cast it while snared, it's a dash, as far as naut is concerned

MisterHealYoGirl12/18/2015, 4:28:15 AM1 votes

Dashing characters move from point A to point B, passing through every point in between. Here http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Dash is a list of every dash in League. Dashing characters are moving very fast, but can be affected by skills on the way if they happen to hit. There are a few exceptions as they relate to Poppy:

  1. Characters with CC-immune dashes (Vi, Hecarim, Jarvan, Malphite, Nocturne, Sion) will not be stopped or knocked up, since they're CC immune.
  2. Characters with untargetable dashes (Fizz, Maokai, Zed, Rek'Sai, Kalista, Mark/Dash, and To the King!) will not be stopped, since they're untargetable during the dash.

Blinking characters move instantaneously from point A to point B, without passing through the intervening space. Here http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Blink is a list of all the blinks in League. Blinking characters are not affected by Poppy's W at all.

StealWolverine12/18/2015, 4:32:28 AM1 votes

the best way to explain it is just by watching; does the image of the character travel to the destination, or do the just disappear from where they are and appear at the end point? The former is a dash and the latter a blink. blinks are much less common than dashes. of the ones listed, the second half of leblancs w, ezreals arcane shift, and flash are the only blinks. i do believe sions ult to be neither a dash or a blink. just a massive ms increase. Its irrelevant either way though because his ult like vi's renders them immune to cc. only thing that im not sure about is the poros. my assumption is that while a poro champions are cc immune.

Stonington12/18/2015, 5:48:51 AM1 votes

These count as dashes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3JOjNR-eFE