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Riot, Will Kog'Maw ever be addressed?

Vore Monster·1/14/2016, 2:33:53 PM·39 votes·11,334 views

It's only been one patch, but Riot has had plenty of time to look at Kog and where he stands as of late.

Do I want him reverted? No, I actually like his new identity as a moving turret and it really puts him apart from other marksman.

Does he need attention? Yes, mainly because he doesn't really spike into late game as well as other late carries like Jinx or Vayne.

And given his sub-par late game, his early game is some of the weakest out of all marksman. His only real power spike is when he gets Rageblade and Runaan's; allowing him to deal actual damage with his auto attacks and W.

Now, I'm no expert league player. I'm also still experimenting with his build paths, but so far he's only reliable if he has enough sustain to heal up while enemies wail on him.

Not only that, but Rageblade and Runaan's have become staples, only giving him 3-slot options to itemize into either pure damage in hopes to get a kill, or sustain to stay alive while he wittles them down (boots take up a space, and we all know it's berserker's).

This doesn't seem healthy at all, because a full-AD or AP Kog isn't going to aid his team as well as a sustain-built Kog due to how low his scaling is. 55% AD while W is active is fine because he ends up dealing % HP damage, but it's scaling is only in AP and it's pretty low at that.

I really like where he was taken, but right now, he isn't looking so hot in both diversity and numbers. I would rather have a low-scaling hybrid ratio Kog Maw or a better scaling, single ratio (AD or AP) Kog Maw than a low scaling semi-hybrid-AP-leniant "needs to build sustain and attack speed" Kog Mawnstrosity.

62 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoir1/14/2016, 6:31:14 PM43 votes

Nice post. I'm off to a meeting, but yes, Kog'Maw is something I'd like to look into in the near future. I'll try to check back in here or elsewhere if something comes of it.

ParaBellam1/14/2016, 7:39:42 PM4 votes

The problem with KogMaw is that Rageblade kog is absolute hell to play against, and it requires a LOT of peeling against.

He's the most feast or famine ADC IMO. He either destroys anyone or is destroyed in the blink of an eye.

His feast is ludicrous to play against if the enemy team has any sort of peel and communication, and his famine is literally useless. The in-between area is very small.

53436278DEL11/14/2016, 2:43:35 PM3 votes

agreed

Erockandroll1/14/2016, 6:37:40 PM3 votes

They mentoned that they wanted to look at the LCS before deciding on buffs. (Cause they expect a premade Juggermaw comp, would be OP.)

So far watching the LCS, the Juggermaw comp is shut down with the Lulu ban. So he's being under represented Without any information whether that comp is actually good. Still, it would be pretty sad if Kog's viability hinged solely on a specific Ally Champion.

The Great Divide1/14/2016, 7:42:59 PM3 votes

I just am sad how they destroyed his AP playstyle. There is no way that Kog can be played AP mid anymore, which was a fun role that had defining strengths and weaknesses

atomicwit1/15/2016, 4:07:39 PM2 votes

Personally, only AP Kog was interesting and fun to me. I don't think that's viable vs better players anymore. Also, if I have to build him Rageblade Nashor's for mid too, that makes his playstyle just like ADC Kog but for a different lane. The uniqueness of AP Kog was what attracted me to him before and I don't want to play the same ADC style in a different lane.

zecastar1/15/2016, 4:23:12 PM2 votes

AP Kog needs better poke to be viable mid. I think someone suggested that it scale with missing health but without these sudden break points where his damage spikes. That way, his damage can increase more normally and predictably. I don't know where the link was but I think that was the basic idea and he suggested some changes to AP scaling too.

I know some people didn't like playing against AP Kog but if assassins are strong, if engage is good, if split-pushing is viable and if there are enough early objectives to push leads, he isn't a problem. I don't think he has been a problem for a very long time in either competitive or soloq ue even though S5 was more favorable to him than most. Also, I don't think if he were a problem his entire play pattern should be killed instead of simply adjusting numbers. It's not like if Twitch was strong they'd suddenly remove his stealth ability so why would Kog's poke mage role be removed?

I know he can ADC too but other ADCs like Corki, Twitch, MF, Lucian, Graves, Ashe, Jinx etc. are all much more fun and not stuck in one build or comp. I can even go Ghostblade Ashe and get good burst or I can go 40% CDR utility with Ionian, ER, Runaan's, or a more traditional build with IE-RFC-Berserker's and even there I can decide on LW+ or Black Cleaver instead. Kog can't even go for a crit. build anymore. I pick Kog and there are no surprises in his bot build or play style (even fewer outplays with the way W works now). AP Kog is much cooler but sadly in an even worse state.

At least I have mid Corki now. :) He's really fun and has a great early-mid game with nice roams. His biggest problem is late game when they group and I think it's just because he lacks CC. Anyway, he's a much better pick than before and probably stronger than AP Kog used to be but I've only played him in normals and of course he's a totally different champion from Kog.

ofart1/15/2016, 3:45:20 PM2 votes

I just want mid AP Kog to be a reasonable choice again. It feels like he's a second class citizen. With his poke being nerfed a lot, it's hard to justify picking him considering his vulnerability and lack of strong CC. This explains it well.

Beyond being weak though, I think he lacks build flexibility now and is fundamentally less interesting to play at the moment. I'll grant that some of this may be due to items. For example, Runaan's is a funny item for him because it sounds so natural but at the same time the crit. is much less useful for his normal builds and the AS is missed from the old Runaan's. It actually synergizes much better with someone like Twitch than it does with Kog and his on-hits.

Dracocrash1/15/2016, 3:35:23 PM1 votes

Personally I have had sucess with this build EVEN late game as kogmaw: Botrk Runans Hurricane Guinsoo's Rage blade Berserker Greives Hextech gunblade Nashors tooh at full build swap greives for sorc shoes since you hit attack speed cap at 8 stacks of rage blade Hextech gunblade heals you for 15% of ALL damage you deal, including onhit, it allows you to stand in place and 1v1 or 1v5 a lot of people. Nashors tooth helps the AP scaling (along with gunblade and rage blade) on ur W % health damage and it gives 42 onhit damage (more that wits end) Frankly I find this build to have a lot of success late game.

LaughingStapler1/15/2016, 3:49:43 PM1 votes

I'm glad he's being looked at and a lot of my thoughts are here.

SirPurrr1/15/2016, 4:29:50 PM1 votes

Bring back Kog'Maw! I've had many Ahri's complain that they aren't getting as fed now. [zombie-nunu-hearts]

Habitz1/15/2016, 8:30:20 PM1 votes

I love kog and I can only suggest blotrk first item. This gives him the sustain he needs while increasing the %hp damage he does on hit. Once I get this item I am more than confident enough to 1v1 nearly anyone and know I'll come out on top.

Haselnussstrauch1/22/2016, 3:22:52 PM1 votes

rip ap kog :c i dont understand why they reworkted him just give us the old kog pls here a link to some ideas for ap kog: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/de/c/gameplay-balance/roE78zga-idea-to-help-ap-kog-maw

Shadowteen202/2/2016, 1:30:24 PM1 votes

I don't get why people are always saying that Kog'maw is a broken champ (As in, has problems more than numbers.) Frankly, I love Kog'maw, and got used to his reworked w. If people want a way to get rid of kog'maw, here is a hint. SONA. Sona This champion is a huge problem to kog. She has the poke, heal and level 6 shutdown. She is a great harass, because with her w, she can move faster than Kog. Honestly, Kog doesn't need to be drastically changed or frankly, even touched, but some people are looking too hard at kog'maw, when he has almost no issues.

Squidblimp1/14/2016, 11:34:02 PM1 votes

What if Kog'Maw's range increased on-hit when his W was active, but the range stacks only stayed on him for 1 second? He could shred more and more safely, but he'd have to get going first.

Tyaldan1/15/2016, 2:26:01 AM1 votes

I am not sure why everyone keeps saying kogmaw is extremely weak. I have absolutely no trouble with him aside from one thing, his high cost full build. I played a kog jg earlier, i had by far the most gold in the game with an almost 3k gold lead at the end of the game over the next highest person, and had just barely finished my full build. But when you do hit full build.... 5.0 attacks a second will shred ANYONE who stands in your way, without penetration. God help them if you land your q on them first, because they are already dead. If your q can land you can land quite a few hits with your w. Sustain kog is nice, but i feel his power really shines early game right after getting stinger, 50% attack speed, you should have your q almost maxed by this point, giving you around 3 attacks a second in w, and with % health damage it only takes one stun / exhaust to kill in lane, if you prefer kog in a duo lane. I like to take him solo and suprise people who havent seen him in a solo lane before.

YoungFarmer1/15/2016, 2:49:14 AM1 votes

He will probably be addressed the day kha'zixs is addressed. yes im salty still!

Unicky1/15/2016, 3:21:30 AM1 votes

I haven't done the Rageblade build yet. I always go for the BotRK, IE and crit once I get 3-4 Items I melt people pretty quickly. Though he is one of my most played champions, I haven't played him much recently so maybe my viewpoint isn't the most reliable.

Dengeden1/15/2016, 3:39:51 AM1 votes

I don't think Kog'maw's late game is all that bad. (Or bad at all). The range advantage is insane late game. Especially if you amplify it with RFC (and IE after that). BorK is still incredibly useful for all the mixed %health dmg he gets for it in conjunction with his W. I like stacking AD/AS MR items if the enemy team comp allows it, you can counter the crap out of the enemy APs like that.

He's kind of a drain tank yes, but it would be almost impossible for a human to use a full damage built to its full capacity.

allthemuslims1/15/2016, 4:50:09 AM1 votes

The reworked Kog'Maw works much better in the jungle than in lane, and MUCH MUCH healthier than you would think because of Krug smite buff + free double attack speed on your W. (Personally I max W first for more W up time but an argument can be made for Q max). Once you have sated devourer + rageblade you basically win the game. (Other items including botrk and hextech gunblade, berserker greaves, shiv/GA after the core/where gold efficient) Seriously, try it.

DarthOdium1/15/2016, 7:28:48 AM1 votes

the hell is wrong with the people on thes boards... i dont see any problem with kog what so ever when i play him yes his early game is some what weak but he makes it up by being a freaking monster late game and saying he does not do as good late game as other adcs is complete horse shit.