[Suggestion/Theorycraft] Removal of Armor penetration and Magic penetration mechanics

Meserion·10/21/2019, 1:06:43 AM·8 votes·3,352 views

The problem: Defense Nullification aka "counter to a counter". Building health, armor and magic resist has always been about countering lots of incoming damage by making yourself tougher at the cost of offense power. The problem here is they have items like Last Whisper and Void Staff that effectively nullify the value of armor and magic resist to a point that it is worthless, while also boosting offensive power at no cost. For HP there are dozens of counters to those who stack hp like Blade of the ruined king, Liandra's Torment, and even the precision mastery that gives bonus damage to people attack higher health targets. Point is, they have effectively made defensive gear worthless unless it has an active effect worth using, there is literally no reason to build defensive anymore as defense nullification has made this into a 1-shot game.

The idea is simple enough, remove penetration mechanics from the game to defensive gear worth the cost but also be effective. I would say keep Lethality in as it gets outscaled by armor eventually anyways. Obviously we would want to put some sort of cap on Max physical and magic damage reduction (say 50% reduction?) to ensure that the effect doesn't result in ToL (Tank of Legends aka the tank meta).

I think this change would promote more dynamic gameplay and also make defensive gear more meaningful even at lower values with say a squishy rushing item 3191 against an assassin or item 3155 against a mage to minimize the burst damage they might take.

Thoughts? Comments?

14 Comments

Mihalikb10/21/2019, 2:00:19 AM5 votes

The problem is by far not Armor penetration. Armor, armor items and armor penetration are in a fairly good spot right now. The problem is Magic Penetration. MR items are garbage, literally some of the best MR items are goddammed mage items the rest are expensive and horribly itemized and there's so much Magic Penetration in game that stacking MR almost completely pointless if your opponents aren't brain dead.

So either massively buff MR items and make them way cheaper or gut Magic Penetration.

ZephyrDrake10/21/2019, 1:20:55 AM4 votes

And then tanks becomes unkillable and we go back to "protect the hyper carry meta" where 3 to 4 of your team is compromised of tanks or champions that can go full tank and still be somewhat effective with only one or two hypercarries in the game. Also why the hell you want to put a cap on defensive items? When you default defensive stats already cover more than half of that by default? You literally are then saying "build like a bruiser because building like a tank is invalid".

Last whisper does not make your tank stats be worthless, neither does void staff. Sorry but for something like this to even be feasible to any degree you would have to do a major overhaul in how defensive stats work as a whole which is just going to create even bigger issues down the line

goodiesohhi10/21/2019, 7:18:07 AM4 votes

The problem: Defense Nullification Nullification aka "counter to a counter to a counter". Building penetration has always been about countering lots of tankiness by making yourself able to do damage at the cost of raw offense (ad/ap) stats and survivability. The problem here is they are proposing to remove this and nullify the value of damage, while also boosting defensive power at no cost. For HP there are dozens of counters to those who stack hp like Blade .. I'm actually done. I can't read this anymore. It physically hurts me to try and make a joke out of this. Thoughts? Comments?

xelaker10/21/2019, 3:09:53 PM3 votes

Just drop the armor pen and magic pen except each one's respective big% item item 3135 item 3036. They aren't rushed early with great stats, but still help with super resistance stacking.

Daddy Ants10/21/2019, 5:24:15 PM2 votes

Armor Penetration is in a fine spot.

We need more MR items with bigger amounts of MR.

Why does Mage have the highest MR item in the game at 60.

Every other class has between 35 and 55.

Talisid10/21/2019, 5:32:46 PM2 votes

IMO we should go back to %penitration applying after Lethality and not before. Would help make Tanks more relevant while keeping Lethality useful.

What you're suggesting is going WAY too far. Tanks aren't that far out of the meta.

heroikc10/21/2019, 5:40:32 PM2 votes

That's definitely an interesting idea, given tanks are meant to outlast assassins and burst plays. And sounds more feasible than going after Conqueror which works but doesn't.

Daddy Ants10/21/2019, 10:57:45 PM2 votes

Tanks are meant to be vulnerable to Marksman and Fighters as sustained damage is usually the way to kill frontline.

Mages and Assassin's (Burst champions) are the kind of champions who are intended to be countered by Tanks.

With the exception of Sustained damage Mages like Azir and Cassiopeia.

Daddy Ants10/23/2019, 1:02:08 PM1 votes

Maybe make Last whisper and it's upgrades Ranged only and make another grievous wounds item thats specifically for melee.