Boards›Gameplay

The state of Janna in the League as of 5.4

TigStripe·3/2/2015, 5:06:49 PM·5 votes·2,100 views

I've been a Janna main since pre-season one, and I have to say that I've been more disappointed over the past four years in Riot's attitude toward her than almost any other champion (I'm looking at you, Irelia). Time and time again, Riot has nerfed Janna because she's perpetually been in the spotlight competitively as a great team oriented support. By all means, continue to balance her, but when you continually nerf the same aspects of a champion without seeing anew overall change in their power level, maybe it's time to reevaluate what your stance on the character is.

Janna is one of the single most nerfed champions in the game, usually to her damage, although since season four premiered, her utility has been getting massive attention. Over time, her AP ratios have been halved, her move speed bonuses have been gutted and shifted, and her tornado has been put on a diet twice. I really wonder what Riot is trying to do with her, and I would love some input on these key points:

  • Why does Janna lose her bonus on Zephyr while it's on cooldown? Only Master Yi and Taric share this trait of a passive that is lost on a spell activation, and there are at least 32 champions that have ability or passive bonuses to a basic stat of some kind. I counted. Why not give Janna a lower, but permanent, bonus, and put her in line with other champs like Amumu, Zyra, Ryze, Fiora, or even those with true passive stats like Veigar, Diana, Xin, or Heimer?

  • When Riot reduced her tornado's damage at the beginning of season 4, they explained that she was pushing too hard for counterplay in mid lane. Why didn't they just reduce the damage it deals to minions, like Pantheon, Hecarim, or Gragas, instead of gutting her ability to be mid as a viable utility mage?

  • Why is is acceptable for Annie or Nidalee or Lux to play AP support and be generously rewarded for it by becoming huge threats in the early, mid, and late game due to their mage ratios, when Lulu and Janna can barely deal enough damage early game, let alone later on when they don't have kill money, to be viable threats? Especially with the removal of DFG, Janna doesn't have any dueling capability because it requires almost 50% more AP for her to compete with a single spell from the aforementioned mages. I understand why a damage oriented champion like Annie can build AP and win that duel, but it feels like a severe handicap; Janna's massive utility will not help her duel, only survive.

  • Why, when Riot continues to nerf Janna's utility, does she not get some form of compensation? Shifting her move speed bonus to her W entirely doesn't present a choice for players, it provides punishment for making a good play saving a teammate. She doesn't deal more damage with it, it doesn't slow for more, she just becomes a sitting duck, hoping she has her other abilities up to save herself. Nerfing her Q's width makes it much harder to land, especially charged, so why can't she deal a bit more damage with a charged shot to make it worth the attempt? At this rate, Janna will not have utility, nor will she have damage.

  • Janna is known for resetting team fights and making a bad situation a good one. This is why she is strong in a team oriented composition. Why does Riot keep nerfing her individual power, when her strength lies in her cooperation with others? Maybe working on her ult's knockback, or reducing the base AD bonus on her shield, could be what she really needs, not personal speed reductions and damage nerfs.

TL; DR: I really think Riot is looking at Janna in the wrong light with their last few changes to her, going all the way back to the support changes in season four. I would love to see some feedback as to why Riot is pushing her in the direction they are.

59 Comments

AHeroNamedHawke3/2/2015, 5:40:54 PM2 votes

{quoted}

  • Janna is known for resetting team fights and making a bad situation a good one. This is why she is strong in a team oriented composition. Why does Riot keep nerfing her individual power, when her strength lies in her cooperation with others?

You just answered your own question

She's supposed to be all about teamwork and utility, why should she have a bunch of personal power on top of that?

SmokingPuffin3/2/2015, 5:54:28 PM1 votes

Why does Janna lose her bonus on Zephyr while it's on cooldown?

No clue. Probably historical reasons.

When Riot reduced her tornado's damage at the beginning of season 4, they explained that she was pushing too hard for counterplay in mid lane. Why didn't they just reduce the damage it deals to minions, like Pantheon, Hecarim, or Gragas, instead of gutting her ability to be mid as a viable utility mage?

This is an off build I don't think Riot should support. Janna mid is just super unfun for the other guy. Zero chance to pressure her in any way -- no chance for kills and no chance to take her tower. Just a farm lane, even if tornadoes deal half damage to minions.

Why is is acceptable for Annie or Nidalee or Lux to play AP support and be generously rewarded for it by becoming huge threats in the early, mid, and late game due to their mage ratios, when Lulu and Janna can barely deal enough damage early game, let alone later on when they don't have kill money, to be viable threats?

Because Lulu and Janna are supposed to be defensive peely supports. Can't have that kind of defensive power and still retain the same offensive output of the listed mages.

Why, when Riot continues to nerf Janna's utility, does she not get some form of compensation?

Because she was OP. Probably still is. Hard to give compensation when your intent is to reduce power.

Why does Riot keep nerfing her individual power, when her strength lies in her cooperation with others?

Riot hates nerfing the reason why you play a champion. They prefer to trim power in places less likely to stir up torches and pitchforks.

Zmuecat3/2/2015, 6:08:52 PM1 votes

In regards to you "Why can mages go bot, but supports can't go mid?" point.

It's because supports are designed to be team based champions, therefore you have to be tied to the hip to a team mate all day every day. If you are alone, it should only be because you are warding.

It's also because when a support goes mid or top, it creates this 'boring/stale' gameplay. Traditional support champions are built around sustain, damage prevention, and CC. You might be used to this lane match up down in bot lane, but anyone not familiar with Sona, Janna, Soraka, Nami, and Lulu will try and trade with you thinking you're a normal lane match up, but then be shot in the face with either a horrible loss, a win (that just gets erased), or their engage not connecting because you turned them into a cat/hit the with a nado/Sona scared you off because you are afraid of her for some reason.

People won't adapt to this type of champion that has a, almost by nature, strong early game and weak late game in terms of raw power. Then after you've farmed and actually have items, you become useful in an entirely different manner.

Mages are allowed to go bot because they don't really change the lane match up much, they just remove the weaker supports out of the pool with their more reliable CC/stronger burst.

This is how I see it, and I actually welcome mages into bot lane. No other champion pool is as varied in who can go there (and that's before ADCs are introduced).

thinking man3/2/2015, 6:09:06 PM1 votes

{quoted}

  • Why, when Riot continues to nerf Janna's utility, does she not get some form of compensation? Shifting her move speed bonus to her W entirely doesn't present a choice for players, it provides punishment for making a good play saving a teammate. She doesn't deal more damage with it, it doesn't slow for more, she just becomes a sitting duck, hoping she has her other abilities up to save herself. Nerfing her Q's width makes it much harder to land, especially charged, so why can't she deal a bit more damage with a charged shot to make it worth the attempt? At this rate, Janna will not have utility, nor will she have damage.

The intention is that instead of mindlessly spamming W and running away with your team, you have to think about it since you'll be slower than your team if you do it.

Droogzy3/2/2015, 6:45:59 PM1 votes

Janna is known for resetting team fights and making a bad situation a good one. This is why she is strong in a team oriented composition. Why does Riot keep nerfing her individual power, when her strength lies in her cooperation with others? Maybe working on her ult's knockback, or reducing the base AD bonus on her shield, could be what she really needs, not personal speed reductions and damage nerfs.

You answered your own question. Do you remember Nemesis, Janna was getting picked non-stop in that game mode.

However it was not because she is a bad support, but rather, she is the quintessential example of a support. Her identity revolves around being able to help her team or help her carry. You may disagree, but I strongly think that she should absolutely not be capable of being able to handle a solo lane. I would go as far as saying of any champion in LoL, she of all of them does not belong in a solo lane.

So far, I have yet to see a nerf that has taken her overboard, the only one I particularly do not like is the tornado with reduction, but even then, it was justified, considering her tornadoes were hitting people outside the animation.

The passive nerf is completely justified, it made absolutely no sense that someone who is a queen of disengage is also capable of engage and chasing down targets, she's a backline champion and should function as a backline champion. That means they do not cause any form of engage (Unless its a flash monsoon, which is difficult to pull off successfully.).

"you can't disengage someone to death unless there's a tower involved."

You do realize disengage means to pull away from a fight right? If you're going for a kill, that's an engage, not a disengage.

"Janna can't punish Annie for making a mistake. She doesn't have the damage potential. She, however, walks on eggshells around alost every support because if she makes even the slightest mistake, she's toast. That's not a fun interaction, and it's the norm for Janna almost every match up in bot lane since the season 4 changes."

I'm going to have to straight up disagree with you here, she's the queen of disengage for a reason. There's a reason why Mejai's is considered a core on her, because you should not be dying often with her. If you do feel like you're walking on egg shells with her, I'm gonna assume there's something wrong with your play style. She's easily one of my safest support champions, and despite all the nerfs, will always remain my #1 go to for support role.

Personally, I think you don't really understand the role Janna is fulfilling. Janna is NOT meant to be a killer or a punisher of enemy mistakes. She's meant to be a protector of your allies, able to cover for when your teammates make mistakes. If you're attempting to use her to punish enemy mistakes, you're playing her wrong, simple as that.

Coming from someone who's first choice of support is and always will be Janna, this is just my opinion, but I welcome to hear what you think of it.

GaleWinUnleashed3/2/2015, 8:02:01 PM1 votes

I've been a Janna main (sorta) since shortly after the start of Season 2014. Not nearly as long as you have, I know. But I love the direction she's going now. Her identity as the Queen of Disengage is being solidified by shifting her power in such a way as to make being aggressive more risky, while still keeping it a possibility.

The recent patch gave her more defined tradeoffs for aggressive play. Janna can still speed up her entire team with her passive, but in order to do so aggressively, she has to be out in front; not a safe place for a squishy support. Shifting the 5% speed from her passive into Zephyr makes the tradeoff when using Zephyr more pronounced; you can slow someone, but you have to be aware that you're leaving yourself more open to being attacked if you do so.

Her playstyle has not been changed by this recent patch. There is simply more risk tied to aggressive actions now. In fact, I view the passive change as a buff. 8% is better than 5%, and I play defensively anyway, so I'm essentially unaffected by the increased risks for aggressive play.

The other nerfs she's been getting recently have not damaged my ability to succeed with Janna. They have merely made it more difficult to do so easily, and every change has been reasonable; none of her core mechanics have been interfered with at all, and she's actually had some pretty nice changes mixed in with the nerfs.

Darth Pixy Misa3/2/2015, 8:50:38 PM1 votes

I agree with these nerfs to janna's utility, why can't janna be tankier(she is a support mage)? And lower her spell costs.

VDc0zCqe0w3/2/2015, 11:59:59 PM1 votes

what the fuck dude lol, Janna is insanely OP, i've been maining Janna since mid-S2 and she's just freewin if you can play her, go full utility + a mejai and collect those 20 stacks

trust me she's just the best (and she's still picked a ton of times in china and korea)

actually the last "passive nerf" was a HUGE HUGE buff to disengage Janna, buy that command enchant on boots and your whole team simply flies by walking towards you, it's insane