Boards›Gameplay

An idea to delay the burst of crit champs and to reduce RNG (discussion appreciated)

abdul569·2/2/2018, 10:53:58 AM·12 votes·946 views

How about a 'crit gauge' that fills up every auto attack/ability that crits. Once filled up, every auto attack will always critically strike without fail. But before it is filled up, you deal normal auto attack damage. When you go out of combat, your crit gauge resets.

Building crit items increase how much the crit gauge increases per auto. Let's say, if a crit gauge is fills up at 100, having just a zeal (with 20% crit) will take 5 auto attacks in combat before you start critting.

eg. In an extended fight, a 100AD adc with 20% crit, will deal 100 damage (before armour modification) for the first 5 autos, but then gets a power spike and start dealing 200 (250 with ie)%.

It will also allow more counterplay for champs like tryndamere. With max rage, you can fight him for 3 autos knowing how much damage he will do, but then you should stop fighting as his autos after that will always crit.

Thoughts?

Edit: to avoid confusion, 100% crit will mean your crit gauge will activate immediately (like current ashe passive) so the late game adc will still be there. It will just give adcs a choice between early damage or building for the late game.

Edit 2: A reply I sent to a commenter:

{quoted}

I agree that the balance and decision making would change A LOT. But it might be healthier in the long run. here's my thinking:

It would mean adcs won't be as much of a priority target, allowing decision making to not be solely around the adc. Focus other enemies, and you don't have to worry about burst as much. But if you ignore them, they will hurt in the extended team fight as they should. Assassins don't have to focus the adc. There's mages, supports (seriously. Kill the soraka or janna if you can) as targets for assassins.

Secondly, it will give windows of power in the bot lane so that a losing bot lane will be able to come back, without the aid of ganks. EG. the enemy adc is 3-0 (and you're 0-2) is just coming back to lane with higher stats, but you were at your wave stacking up your gauge. Then you engage at that moment since you have the crits while they didn't, giving you that window of power to beat your counterpart.

Finally, kiting will be that much more important. Unlike just running away, weaving autos (orb-walking) will allow you to get that crit spike. It will seperate good from bad adcs even more.

19 Comments

zoliking2/2/2018, 11:13:34 AM8 votes

I play adc and being able to hang around dealing sustained damage for an extended period of time is a rare treat. Either you poke or get engaged on. In this setup buidling crit wouldn't make any sense as it would take a lot of investment to get the gauge to fill up fast enough in most situations, but until that point any gold invested in crit would just be spent on the eventual payout without any immediate benefit.

Not to mention how adcs are vulnerable to ambushes and any chance of fighting back depends on how much damage you can dish out in the first second or two of the fight.

I imagine ad assissins who rely on dealing a gajillion damage before you even notice they are on you wouldn't be much use after a change like this.

Overall it looks like the change you propose would disturb the balance of the game to a gargantuan degree while not really solving any problem. The RNG with crit matters mostly in scenarios that involve just a few hits, on an extended basis it evens out pretty well.

DracosKasu2/2/2018, 4:14:08 PM5 votes

The truth is crit overall need to go. The fact is they need to create item for adc to fill it up to 100% prove how unhealty it is.

VardenSalad2/2/2018, 9:02:47 PM3 votes

Change crit to a flat %damage increase on autos, balance the numbers.

There. No more RNG.

Plastic 5 ADC2/2/2018, 3:07:00 PM2 votes

When you go out of combat, your crit gauge resets.

Yeah, no.

ADC5LUT2/2/2018, 6:41:18 PM2 votes

While your idea does address the RNG of crit it doesn't do anything for the problem of adc's bursting squishies with crit which I think is what most people dislike about crit itemization. I've proposed it before to mostly downvotes, but removing crit and introducing a new mechanic is really the only way to fix the bigger (imo) issue. What you could do is have two stacking passives. Former crit items would instead mark a target, each successive attack would increase the stack by 1 (2 for melee) on the target. Each stack would add 1% of the targets max HP to the next AA of the ADC capping at 10 stacks. At 5 stacks the ADC gains a stack on themselves stacking up to 5 times, switching targets will take these stacks on the ADC and apply all of them to their newest target. Each attack on the new target will decrease the stacks on the former. Stacks last for x seconds.

Bam, you now have a dps tank melter that can switch targets and if left alone will eventually be capable of melting teams. This create a nice curve of uptime, allows assassins/burst mages/bruisers to do their job without being deleted.

GinoSoldier2/2/2018, 12:14:52 PM2 votes

I am, overall, in agreement with Zoliking.

I have a counter-proposal however;

Change all Crit Chance for Damage Enhancers that applies to certain specific instances of guaranteed extra 'crit' damage on champion kits. Each ratio would be balanced individually, of course. Quick examples;

-Caitlyn Headshots -Vayne Silver Bolts -Sivir AA after a successful Spell Shield -Jhin fourth shot -Kalista's Rend damage (instead of straight AD, maybe?) -Lucian's Second Shot passive -Tristana's E activation -Xayah on feather-rooted targets

-Yasuo while at full flow -Tryndamere while at full rage

...and so on, though i can't claim i thought of an idea for each ADC (Jinx comes to mind as someone who doesn't have an obvious option), but something should be manageable. There are multiple advantages to this;

-Opens the 'Crit' stat to every champion out there as an additional option that can be added into kits or items, especially interesting for bruisers -Removes RNG entirely -Promotes skillful play for the ADC class as well as implementing clear windows of power for each

And outside of the fact that it'd be an absolutely massive balance patch, most likely worthy of preseason, i can't see any real downsides, especially on the long-term.

Teridax682/2/2018, 12:47:39 PM2 votes

I like the idea of adding gameplay to crits by removing the RNG component and back-loading them more, but while I disagree with the other commenters that this would somehow ruin marksman balance forever (particularly since much of the argumentation there revolves around pretending that marksmen somehow need front-loaded burst to be relevant, including against assassins), I do think setting the gauge back at something like 5 autoattacks for a Zeal might be a bit much. Crit damage should be back-loaded and predictable, but past a certain number of autoattacks early on, the infrequent pacing might not really make marksman gameplay that much more stable, even though it would still be an improvement from now.

Generally, I think it would be preferable to make the number of attacks consistent, but to instead change the damage each critical strike brings: if literally every third autoattack on any champion were a critical strike, for example, but dealt zero bonus damage and zero additional effects as a baseline, every crit item could thereby add damage proportionate to their crit chance. If Zeal offers 100% AD bonus damage every 5 autoattacks, for example, then under this system it would add 60% AD bonus physical damage to every third basic attack. Building more crit would therefore not change the gameplay behind the mechanic (you'd have to build attack speed to proc crits more frequently, but would otherwise apply them at the same pace), but would instead increase the bonus tied to that third attack. This could hopefully mesh with most itemization (IE could amplify that crit damage by 50%, for example), but also three-hit passives like Vayne's or Vi's, as well as potentially open up opportunities for non-AD crit options, or just non-damage options that could be tacked onto that third hit.

Fishlord2/2/2018, 8:38:38 PM1 votes

Or we could just remove crit. That would make this game balanced.

Moonfall Saber2/2/2018, 5:31:21 PM1 votes

Honestly I didn't even read the post but I like the title. Crit needs to change great.

Lios Ashenblade2/2/2018, 11:00:01 PM1 votes

Why not reduce the crit cap? I mean that is the issue right, that it caps at 50% so someone attacking at 2.5 times a second is basically assured a crit, or reduce the crit you get from items, I mean our cdr is capped at 40% and you usually only get 10% from each item, I think there are still waht..2 items with 20%

AirKingNeo2/2/2018, 11:55:46 PM1 votes

Why does this topic consistency come up and gets shown as terrible for the same reason?

It just means you're forced to build a lot of attack speed. You're idea forces people to buy a lot of attack speed.

Also, you didn't make anything healthier nor solve any issue. You just added an unfun delay (a new issue) to something being broken.

The Goodest Boy2/3/2018, 1:37:42 AM1 votes

I'll admit I've only skimmed the comments of this, but your idea seems solid. It would take quite a bit to get used to but, in an ideal game world, this sounds like a great idea.

Another similar solution would be to remove crit altogether, and incorporate bonus auto attack damage in an ADCS kit.

For example: imagine Xayahs current kit, but whenever she hit someone with her feathers/rooted someone, they became vulnerable to her, increasing her auto damage against them by X amount.

It would still allow Xayah to do sustained damage from range, but give it some more skill expression instead of RNG.

Honestly I have no critiques on your proposed idea. Good work!