Mid-Year Mage Update - Itemization Rework

Coballz·Mar 5, 2016·7 votes·1,825 views

I created a theorycrafting video for the MYMU - was wondering if any Rioters (and other community members ofc) have anything to say about it? :3

21 Comments

NekusenMar 6, 20164 votes

i would like single path items to get more options - > item 3101 item 3136 item 3191

CoballzMar 6, 20161 votes

I do too. Even though I don't currently have an idea for the Stinger, both the Guise and the Armguard will have updates if it were up to me. Stay tuned, I'd say! ^^

ChaddyFantomeApr 10, 20161 votes

I remember back when this was the case with item 3044 I was like, "fix Cleavers build path and make it build out of Brutaliser and Phage

Then they made it build out of phage!...instead of brutaliser, which left it a single path item for item 3142 's xD

They have since fixed this though during the whole AD itemization changed.

One thing I have been saying is that item 3050 should have item 3191 in its recipe. it would really clean it up. The only reason i think they haven't is because the items passive doesn't go with the support role and would lead to potential stat loss or something yada yada

The Yetii RiderMar 5, 20163 votes

Vladimir, Mordekaiser, Kennen and Akali are the reason spell vamp can never be good.

Marksmen are allowed to have power in lifesteal because they have mana costs. Riot has stated, quite plainly, that they never intend to make a marksman who does not use mana.

Meanwhile, some mages do not use mana. Those that do not, can buy spell vamp and gain sustain all day for free. When spell vamp is good, Vladimir and Mordekaiser become unbreakable walls in lane, while Morgana and Akali scale ridiculously well into late game and become almost unstoppable.

While spell vamp is bad, no one can use it.

As long as energy exists, spell vamp cannot. Period.

As for your Seeker's rework, I dislike that as well. Zhonya's may grant immunity to all types of damage, but it also has the stipulation that you cannot take actions during that time either. (You can't move as well). Your Seeker's rework gives you total immunity to half of all damage, but also allows you to carry on as normal. Playing super aggressively with this item would be a nightmare, not to mention how it would be on Tryndamere or Kayle, who would use it back to back with their ultimates to absolutely decimate a team.

Hell, if Master Yi could become immune to physical damage for 1 second while picking up some armor for just 1400 or less gold, he would. And then he would get pentakills.

Flat penetration stacking on mages - This is why Abyssal is the way it is now, instead of giving flat penetration. Too much flat penetration on mages is a very bad thing. The reason that flat penetration can be stacked on AD champions is because AD champions have to get up close and dirty in order to fight enemies (ranged AD champions are designed to need crit and attack speed too much to build any flat pen).

If Lux had 50 MR Pen, she would be able to wipe the enemy squishies off the map from an entire lane away, and then her entire kit would need to be nerfed to compensate, which would create a crutch where she NEEDS to build those items in order to function and has no item diversity, and then if those items get nerfed or removed, she is left powerless. Apply the same logic to Karthus, Ziggs, Twisted Fate, and every other AP champion with insanely long range.

Your ideas aren't bad, per se, they just don't really fit in with the type of game balance Riot has been using for years.

CoballzMar 6, 20161 votes

If Lux were to pick up flat MPen Marks, Quints (and I believe Glyphs, correct me if I'm wrong) in addition to Sorcs and a Haunting Guise - which currently is a 2700g buy - she hits that 50MPen mark on live. It's really not that difficult. Hence me lowering the MPen on the Guise to 10 - and most likely, due to an increase in availability if it were up to me, on Sorcs as well - so as to make getting tons of flat MPen an investment, rather than a "first item" class buy when looking at the gold cost.

Additionaly, yes, I am aware that Spellvamp is a weird stat because of manaless mages who have far a time sustaining with it. This called for me to lower the amount, but increase the return values on multi-target hits so as to inceitivize mages that actually use mana and like to fight for prolonged amounts of time to invest into the stat. I've (among others) lowered the amount on WotA to 15% so as to keep that a bit lower - since manaless mages tend to not pick up mana-related items, the WotA shouldn't have the single highest Spellvamp stat IMO - and slap SV onto items that champions with mana and a sustained damage dealing pattern would pick up. Think of Orianna, Azir, Xerath. Those kinds of champions.

And the type of game balance Riot's been using for years has made it so Spellvamp has been overpowered on those four named champions for seasons-on-end. It's about time things were shaken up rigorously. But that's my humble opinion, feel free to disagree.

And yes, Seeker's might've been overzealous. I was considering this or another iteration, but based on the overwhelmingly negative feedback on this iteration, I might get back to it and propose my other one instead. It would make things slightly less overpowering.

Thanks for stopping by! ~C

Angry MonsterMar 6, 20163 votes

You make to many assumptions in this video and personally i would not intentional watch another one from you again. You are changing things and seem not aware of the problems they would cause in game, they are just a build up for your later items.

Certain things are not healthy, like mages sustaining in lane, but to paraphrase you "it should be a choice." Mages are supposed to have windows of vulnerability and should make sacrifice to sustain.

Last thought, you put the most thought about abyssal's removal from the game, the problem with it is that you have 6 months worth of material and PBE testing where riot is talking about how the item is not health as is. You are pretty much acting like these are original ideas that do not have a source, which they do. You are a plagiarists and if you really have anything to do with DIG, should be fired. You could of easily mentioned how riot as talked about some of X and partly formed your thoughts as a acknowledgement or nod to others work. Instead you pass of the whole thing as yours.

CoballzMar 6, 20161 votes

I find it ironic that you call me out on making "to many assumptions", after which you go ahead an assume that I plagiarized Riot for their work on the PBE. When in fact, the PBE hasn't seen an Abyssal Scepter iteration for multiple months, and the Mid-Year Mage Update was announced after the last iteration was put on the PBE. Not to mention it doesn't take a striking amount of brain power to realize that the current iteration of the Abyssal Scepter is bad.

Additionally, marksmen should also have "windows of vulnerability" in lane, which are in part filled by their support, and in part filled by their ease in sustaining. I find an investment of 1000g to sustain, however slightly, enough of an investment - not to mention it's still only 5%.

Lastly, you strike a whole heap of problems with my work, but offer no insight of your own as to what could be done. Don't you think that's a bit lazy to say the least? Not to mention I've yet to show you my works of late-game additions - but judging from your comment, you won't be watching that video at all, so that would be wasted effort.

Thanks for stopping by, however. Much appreciated :3

TheOvermindMar 5, 20162 votes

I totally agree with everything you said and I like your suggestions and ideas as well. Good job!

Stars ShaperMar 5, 20162 votes

Disclamer: Opinions, not whines

As a Xerath main I didn't like any of the changes you proposed so far except maybe the item 3136 one and the change of active on the item 3191 . Right now there is no "pure" mage that builds spellvamp except Vladimir of the big six and most of the times you use as examples AP assassins. As I understood (english not being my primary language so I might have missed some words) you focused on making the items in the video less wanted for them or removed the ones you thought were problematic on them. Fair enough, but you should have something up your sleeve to compensate immobile mages for the huge chunk of stat and damage loss.

CoballzMar 17, 20161 votes

I definitely do have plenty up my sleeve >:D

AChanceOfReignMar 5, 20162 votes

And I'm gonna start playing more Veigar in this patch >:D

CoballzMar 5, 20161 votes

How so? :3

AChanceOfReignMar 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

How so? :3

Being the boss of the mid lane, duh :P

Meep ManMar 5, 20162 votes

Everything's pretty good, but I disagree with giving Seeker's duration scaling based on armor. Why? Because, since Seekerms has to build into something with the same active/passive, Armor Tanks such as Malphite, Rammus, and such will buy it and get around 4 seconds of physical damage immunity, which is huge, allowing them to rush a Seeker's in lane and get both offensive power and MAJOR defensive power. Perhaps increase the base duration to 1.25-1.5 seconds and remove the armor scaling. Or DRAMATICALLY reduce the armor scaling.

CoballzMar 5, 20161 votes

4 seconds of physical damage immunity means you have an additional 250 armor from other sources. By that time, physical damage hardly tickles. However, I get your point.

On the other hand, getting 250 bonus armor means you've hardly itemized into MR, and that means - with items I've yet to unveil - you have the opportunity to actually do something to tanks as opposed to now.

DreampodMar 5, 20162 votes

Overall I disagree strongly with all your ideas. For me having items that pull in a couple different directions is a good thing because it creates more diversity in builds game to game so that build paths are dynamic based on your enemies comp rather than just a static build. These items reward players for understanding the strengths of their champion and their opponents champions by being more gold efficient if you will actually be taking advantage of every stat and less gold efficient than other items if you aren't. Taking away areas that players can demonstrate mastery in the game through knowledge of matchups in favour of only rewarding mechanical skill seems like a poor choice.

CoballzMar 5, 20161 votes

Nowhere did I mention that I feel like mechanical skill should be the thing you should be rewarded for.

Additionally, items like Haunting Guise as they currently are not what you call "creating more diversity from game to game". Not only does it have 1 upgrade only - and share a named passive with its upgrade too - it has that HP slapped on for no apparent reason. The proposed suggestion for it removes that HP and (as you haven't been informed, I don't hold it against you for not knowing) another item fulfills the role of AP/HP item so that you could itemize into it and have that diversity.

Another xample is the Hextech Revolver. It currently builds into WotA - which pretty much only Vlad picks up - and into Gunblade which champions with hybrid stats only make good use of. Allowing it a way into other items by lowering its pickup point means you can - as you say - have items that pull into different directions.

LMK if I've left things open. Thanks for replying, it helps me out ^^