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@Support Mains - Discussion Topic

Fanny Forecast·3/8/2016, 4:03:03 PM·4 votes·2,574 views

IF YOU DON'T MAIN SUPPORT DO NOT EVEN BOTHER REPLYING.

Okay, so, there's been a lot of threads about supports, usually from other support mains, about how we're constantly mistreated and all that jazz. I totally agree with these threads, but I want to change the pace a little.

In MMOs, I played healers and tanks as my primary roles. In MMOs, healers and tanks are typically respected because they FORCE the respect and because their contribution is more noticeable. I forced respect as a healer in MMOs by basically refusing to heal people. If they died, their fault, they didn't dodge attacks and they disrespected me, and I don't resurrect them until after the loot is shared, without them. It was a 100% valid and non-reportable thing to do, and SO many other healers/tanks did the same type of thing. They forced respect by making people realize what type of hell it is to not have them. It's an amazing thing and I want to bring it over to league.

So, support mains, do you approve or disapprove of forced respect, like mentioned above? If you approve, what are ways you do this without stepping into intentional feeding territory? (Things like playing Tahm and eating disrespectful/rude/toxic ADCs at inopportune times)

//Editing In: What do you guys think of having playing every role a certain number of times a requirement before going into ranked? It would force people to learn how to support thus making people realize that HEY, SUPPORTS ACTUALLY DO SHIT.

46 Comments

Rolldembones3/8/2016, 6:36:45 PM5 votes

This attitude is why I stopped playing MMOs. The object is to win. By either not helping or letting someone die, all things being equal you weaken your team by 20%.

If your ego is so fragile that you have to throw a game to try to prove some point by punishing 3 other people because you can't just mute 1 toxic person don't que up.

This is a team game. The goal is to kill the enemy nexus. By "punishing a meanie" just because he said you sucked you're hurting the other people on your team. I report the people that admit to throwing every single time. This behavior is far more toxic to me then someone talking spit to me, I just mute them.

TheLittlestLulu3/8/2016, 4:05:07 PM5 votes

Honestly I've never really noticed any significantly higher amounts of mistreatment as a support.

If anything the jungler is mistreated more than any other role by far.

Dataless3/8/2016, 5:14:41 PM5 votes

I don't need to force someone's respect, as a Lion does not care for the bleating of Sheep. If your team doesn't understand your value as the support they are not worth your time. If my ADC is doing poorly I will straight up ditch their ass for the rest of the game and make plays with my more competent teammates. This is the main reason I play Bard . I can control the entire map and thus, the entire game. Support mains are most empowered when they put themselves on playmaking champions and put the burden on themselves, I rely on my team for nothing, I make them revolve around me.

Br4ndon3/8/2016, 10:12:15 PM4 votes

No. Thats throwing game because you want to be a special snowflake. How about you just mute the players harassing you and use the report button. Youre not punishing just the rude ADC or whatever, you're punishing everyone on your team whether or not they were involved.

I also play healers in MMOs and I don't purposely let people die because theyre rude. When someone is rude to me i just block them. Also in the MMOs I've played intentionally ignoring your role was reportable. I've personally reported Tanks in FF14 for trolling.

Erockandroll3/8/2016, 4:10:30 PM3 votes

I think the game is too team oriented to make forced respect a thing. You don't just distribute IP or other consesions to only the people still alive at the end of the match.

Besides, That would often be considered Trolly behavior. Which isn't something you really want on a class that most people don't want to play in the first place.

Magnum Mack3/8/2016, 4:51:26 PM3 votes

When I get a toxic adc I basically just mute them and roam mid. If they go in, I'll support them, but at that point it's on them to engage because I'm not going to dive in and be left hanging by an adc who's "showing me who's boss" by basically feeding me to the enemy when top or mid could use a snowball.

I once said, "Man, would you look at all that vision you don't have up top. Better go ward for you and mid." And then I left them alone.

Tahm makes the best support when someone is being a troll or toxic. It's the support equivalent of grabbing a tantrum kid by the ear and bringing them outside. I love it.

Akenero3/8/2016, 4:38:45 PM2 votes

I force respect HARD when I support. I do it by carrying my ADC to fucking Everest.

How? When playing Leona I'm almost ALWAYS looking to tower dive, and the plays I make cause people to stand behind me and collapse on the poor victim.

And with sona? Mg ADC can leave Lane and I'm STILL able to match the damage of their ADC. And I pull out perfect heals and stuns that literally make my team awestruck.

But as a whole, respect is earned from good decisions.ping someone away, and do your best to save them if you can. Keep up with all lanes and ping Mia for your allies.

Pikmints3/8/2016, 6:25:29 PM2 votes

I do like the notion of forced respect, but in a game like this I believe that you have to go about it in a different way than you stated you do in MMOs otherwise you would risk being reported.

Typically I mute people at the earliest signs of them being tilt, whether they type "...", "sigh", "gg", or even just spam pings aggressively at our teammates. If it was a minor instance I'll support as I normally do, but if they struck a chord with me then I'll start playing in a slightly passive aggressive manner. One example, I'm missing 1/4th of my health and Dr. Tiltenstein is missing half, I'll heal myself before healing them. If any other ally around is missing health I'll heal them before I heal the tilt. If I think the heal would be immediately beneficial, like an enemy Talon is close and used Youmuu's, I'll put aside those feelings in the name of trying to win. If the top laner is tilting then I'll ward more in the southern/eastern jungle, or if the ADC is tilting then I'll ward more in the western/northern jungle. They have wards, they can protect themselves via vision. If they push too far up for them to be able to ward safely then they were too far out and that's on them.

Doing something like using Tahm's Devour on your carry as they try to get a siege minion won't force respect but only make them tilt harder and could possibly make an already existing problem worse. So intentionally putting them in a worse spot is not something I'll do, but I'll prioritize my teammates over them when things aren't hectic.

And regarding that editted-in topic, gotta say I disagree. I don't have jungle runes and don't plan on getting some any time soon. That barrier would mean that I'd need to jungle sub-optimally intentionally for a few games or I'd need to grind out that boatload of IP required to get those runes. I feel like this is intended to reduce the flaming that people do towards their teammates, I feel like this would simply change it from, "My support is garbage" to "I should have gone support."

AnonymousPoro3/8/2016, 4:56:59 PM2 votes

When I play Braum , and someone disrespects me(let's say a Gnar top), I'll "accidentally" forget to step in front of a bullet for him a time or two.

AscendedxBlade3/8/2016, 4:05:40 PM2 votes

i just go help another lane if the adc ignores me

No flash no life3/9/2016, 1:21:17 AM2 votes

I play the kind of mmo you mentioned as well and I have to say things work exactly opposite between pvp and pve aspects.

In PvE environment, tanks and healers are top priorities. Even without dps you'll eventually get your objectives done apart from specific boss fights.
In PvP environment, be it mmorpg or this game, dps is top priority. If tanks and healers die your dps still has the potential to wipe enemy team, but if dps die then since neither tank nor healer can kill anyone among a well-coordinated team, it's only a matter of time before they die. Most of the time tanks and healers are there to support the dps and keep them alive for as long as possible.

Therefore, in this pvp oriented game where it's the carry that impacts the game more than support, I don't think it's possible to force respect to begin with regardless of whether I support this idea or not.

Now to imput my opinion, I don't think any specific role should be treated with priviledges over other roles, coming from support main here and healer main tank sub-main in games like aion&tera. When I played classes in demand ppl approached me as if they were trying to appeal a princess, and I didn't like that because players receiving different treatments based on the class they played felt unfair to me. Hence, while I admit ppl don't always appreciate what I'm doing, I don't like the idea of forcing them to respect me due to my significance.

Beldair3/9/2016, 12:44:09 AM2 votes

I'm guilty of that in MMOs sometimes.

Had a guy make a comment about my voice over the chat so i stopped healing him. He died quickly and learned....don't piss off the guy that's healing you. But that was a one time thing.

On here, even if I get an ADC or team that says stuff about my supporting...i ignore it and keep doing my job (or taking the adc's job if i went Mord or Nid support XD)

Athenes Lulu3/9/2016, 1:30:37 AM2 votes

If you don't do super idiotic things, then you'll never get the "mistreatment" that support "mains" claimed to be getting, unless that teammate is a complete idiot. All it takes is... just have a brain. Really. Be reasonable.

People just have a tendency to whine and don't want to be blamed, which is why there's dozens of "muh support mistreatment :((((((" threads out there.

I am not a fan of "forced respect", since I have seen too much of people purposely trolling because they don't get a certain amount of respect they wanted, no matter what role. It's stupid. It's unnecessary. Everyone in the team are all equally important. In MMO's it's probably okay because of how much more effective the support classes are, but in a team-heavy game like League... no. I don't care what you are playing, but if you present any form of shitty ego like that "forced respect", get out, you don't deserve to win. But again, that's just my stance especially because of the kind of shit I have seen.

alfavhunter3/9/2016, 2:37:41 AM2 votes

I already demand respect

Just as I'll give it till it's shown its not deserved

The key is if they won't respect you don't support them

If my boy can't be civil I will support mid top or the jungler over them

I'll support a different lane and when you realize you are now being tower dove constantly it's a shame you don't have someone who specializes in punishing such playing through utility and CC in that lane with you, because of that toxic fumes you got going on

EmEx3/10/2016, 2:05:47 PM1 votes

I just had a support who was very toxic, flamed the whole team except me because we won lane, but if I played bad i bet she woulda flamed me too. It goes both ways but more often its the adc that is toxic I think.

Anraton3/8/2016, 4:09:20 PM1 votes

I get your point but ... doing something like that really fast ends up with throwing the game ...

The point about "normal" MMO is, that you don't "waste" 40 minutes to teach a DD to wait for the healer/tank etc.

Rossonious3/8/2016, 4:10:36 PM1 votes

I mute assholes then carry so hard with nami everyone is freaked out post game screen and just leaves without saying anything.

enraged in flame3/8/2016, 4:19:21 PM1 votes

Ok so I am trying to be a support main.... played about 70% of my pvp games as a support. And now trying to stretch out into jungle... but with that being said yes I have noticed lots of hostility toward s supports. Like killing an enimy with blitz and his alt pasive kills enimy and your adc stats flaming you.... or you playing nami and your adc is almost dead and I s running away and your heal bounces off them and kills enimy champ then call you out for ksing... I find it ruff sometimes to either play my best and get flamed at or play pasive and dont make any waves to keep from getting flamed. But to answer your question I play to win and I would find it hard to not do my best to support my adc/team when it would hinder my chances of winning.

Baby Ghoul3/8/2016, 4:30:55 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fanny Forecast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yiaE7mbG,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-03-08T16:03:03.694+0000)

IF YOU DON'T MAIN SUPPORT DO NOT EVEN BOTHER REPLYING.

The jungler mains will be trying to force their way into our discussion at any moment.

I think that forcing respect is a little too abrasive, but I see where it's coming from and I have to admit I've let people die who just completely flamed me in all chat when I have a really good score and am preforming my role as support adequately. I've seen other supports pretend like this as well. Maybe it's what this game needs so that people wake up to this problem. There were so many people asleep to this issue in the other threads, it was sad to see and confirms that nobody pays attention to our role.

There is a definite problem with respect in this game towards supports. Supports do not exist when we're winning the game, but are always the cause when the team is losing.

Forcing respect is becoming more common though. We're noticing a phenomenon happening where supports are not taking item 2049 item 3341 . They're more aggressive, they're stealing kills, they're taking ignite, and they're playing risky early to try to get ahead. Mages are posing as supports because they have item 3092 , and this is happening every other game.

We're seeing the decay of botlane in Gold and below, which is something like 70% of the playerbase.

Scaling, income, and itemization are a big part of this. These "supports" know how crappy scaling is, and how the ADC's performance overrides their own, so they want to take matters into their own hands. The problem is that teams without ADCs lose in this meta especially. It works in the chaotic scene known as soloqueue often enough that it's happening more frequently. The support role has always been rather limited, but I mean supports can barely even roam now.

For example if someone is not taking advantage of my peels, heals, or lockdowns, I'm going to try to move on. However the problem now is that the ADC holds your fate in their hands. You can't move on from them anymore. You're locked into bot lane because supports have such an issue with scaling currently. You can't roam to mid with the level 9 Zed when you just hit level 6.

I think the reason supports are starting to speak out more than they have is because season 6 is a accumulation of years of neglect. We get a tiny bone tossed our way here and there, but we remain marginalized. Riot really needs to speak up on this issue. Their silence is starting to become frustrating. They'll frequently comment on pretty much everything else except the state of the support role.

Riot needs to rethink their warding system overall, but I would really like to see them address the issue of support scaling ASAP. It's making the role turn into such a chore, we already have have limited build paths, at least let us scale with everyone else.

RedCyclone3/8/2016, 5:29:14 PM1 votes

If you think what a support is in retrospect, they are a amplifier and not just a amplifier to adc's alone I have often improved my games outcome by ditching botlane, going top and mid to assist them with kills and gain more out of 3 minutes of roam then i did for 10 minutes of getting painfully flamed and killed botlane

Kaxi3/8/2016, 7:50:55 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fanny Forecast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yiaE7mbG,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-03-08T16:03:03.694+0000)

IF YOU DON'T MAIN SUPPORT DO NOT EVEN BOTHER REPLYING.

{quoted}

The jungler mains will be trying to force their way into our discussion at any moment.

I'm going to interject for a few reasons.

I play mostly tanks in the jungle. Sejuani, Amumu, Gragas, Nautilus, etc. Now, I have played my fair share of bruisers and carries, but I find myself most comfortable in the tank role with high CC and the ability to lock people down and to protect my allies.
I build Sightstone /consistently/ on these tank junglers because I know how much of a burden it is to have a dark map. The support can't always free himself/herself to roam safely; it's much easier on the jungler to obtain strong vision to make it easier on the support to focus on the getting the ADC rolling.
I've always considered tank junglers to be a "second support" by building budget items and supportive items (ie Locket). This has shifted slightly into a more carry-focused jungle season with Devourer-Rageblade Bruisers or the infamous Runic Echoes tanks, but for the most part of the past few seasons, I've stuck to Juggernaut and Cinderhulk. Exceptions are there, but tanks are my bread and butter.

With that out of the way, I want to say a few things.

In the few cases I solo queue, I see the stereotypical scenario of a support actually playing well (and the ADC getting ahead in kills but not farm), and then the ADC throwing super hard. This is not uncommon. It's silly that support players can do so well just for their shining jewel accomplishment of an ADC to dive head-first into an enemy team. Don't think I haven't noticed what a support can do to a bad player; I watch the map, and I can see good plays happen. The worst part is when the ADC then blames the support. It's maddening, and I see it happen more often to the support than the jungler. There's a clear lack of respect for a random ADC paired with a random Support. It's come to the point where I have contempt for the ADC and team with my Support to keep this idiot alive for as long as possible.

To, support mains, do you approve or disapprove of forced respect, like mentioned above? If you approve, what are ways you do this without stepping into intentional feeding territory? (Things like playing Tahm and eating disrespectful/rude/toxic ADCs at inopportune times)

//Editing In: What do you guys think of having playing every role a certain number of times a requirement before going into ranked? It would force people to learn how to support thus making people realize that HEY, SUPPORTS ACTUALLY DO SHIT.

As a jungle main speaking, this would be a fairly decent idea. This isn't just from an ADC-Support disconnect, either. It's also so that every lane can learn to respect the each other. We don't suddenly want a Mid thinking lesser of a Top because "all they do is split push and not teamfight" or a Top thinking less of a Mid because "they don't take an objective when I'm caught split pushing". A more complete view of the game should be incorporated for /all/ roles. It teaches Summoners how each lane works and how they should form respect accordingly for each important role.

ADC: I'm the guy who pumps out the consistent safe damage. Support: I'm the guy who keeps the damages alive and pumping. Mage: I'm the guy who softens enemies up and even kills 'em. Assassin: I'm the guy who offs the enemy's damage and get out or die trying. Fighter: I'm the guy who goes ham and does as much damage as possible to everyone. Bruiser: I'm the guy who soaks up damage but deals enough to draw the attention of the carries Tank: I'm the guy who puts my fat ass where it's needed to block or lock down.

Though, it is a little upsetting that the carries get most of the thunder when it was my fat ass that kept that Jax or Fiora or Yi off 'em just long enough for 'em to kill those borderline-unfair champions. It's a living, though. I'm just as important as everyone else.

Vekkna3/9/2016, 10:14:21 PM1 votes

I'd say it's probably 1/100 games that I get flamed by an ADC. If I fuck something up, I just say "sorry 'bout that" before they can bitch about it. If they're bad or annoying, I focus less on supporting them and more on getting fed.

Almost every time an ADC is abusive it's because I'm feeding my ass off to a non-traditional AD support that deletes me from invisibility (Shaco, Talon, Wukong, Rengar, etc). In those cases I can't be bothered to care because I know I got cheesed, and feeding them hundreds of gold from pink wards couldn't stop it.