Boards›Gameplay

Thoughts on Sejuani rework

WinTheWarOnPants·5/5/2017, 8:46:30 AM·45 votes·5,543 views

I have been spamming the shit out of sej since her rework(abused it some in ranked) to give it a fare shot and assess how it came out.

TL;DR "it's bad. All her power was dumped into her E and passive dmg leaving the rest of her kit underwhelming and unsatisfying to use. Her kit is far less balanced out than it was before."

I'll list abilities and their problems one by one, then give an overall gameplay thoughts/conclusion.

Her passive is way over top ridiculous with the stats it gives. Its a neat idea, but champs aren't meant to have that much resistances. which is pretty evident with her interactions with certain things like item 3025 and item 3075 (you know somethings wrong when it makes thormail good lol), she also has an insane(possibly game-breaking interaction with shields, being that she can sustain her passive for MUCH longer than i'm sure was intended by using a shield to keep from procing her(tank) passive. This needs to completely reevaluated/heavily tweaked to not give such absurd def stats(something completely different IMO). Reworking it all together and starting from scratch might be a good idea. The second part of her passive should be removed completely or worked to only provide a small amount of % HP dmg like 5-10%. This passive IS her kit right now. Everything she has revolves around this dmg(and her "stuns for days" E).

Her Q IDK if it's just me, but i have been getting VERY frustated with her Q now. Not because it does next to no dmg now, but because it's so damn hard to escape or dash past people with. Someone can be completely behind you and you still hit them! I'm pretty sure riot messed with it cause i never had this stupid problem before. This is the ability that should scale with %sej max HP IMO and not her W.

Her W I like her new W from a mechanical perspective and think it's a really good addition to her kit. It needs to scale MUCH better and do MUCH more dmg(magic dmg), and scale with AP. This really just comes back to how ALL of her power is in her passive and E now, and her W being the best addition is completely undermined by the fact that it's not good for anything but stacking her passive. The dmg is SO bad it's not even laughable, it's just pathetic...

Her E This ability is inanely toxic and needs to be completely reworked or reverted. The "melee only" part is bad for obvious reasons that has been stated a million times now before and after this rework was released. The stun is just WAY too much cc that she doesn't need and takes up WAY too much power since it's honestly even more powerful that her old ult(as long as you have the right comp). This ability completely breaks her kit. It makes laneing against her a nightmare and completely unwinnable for any melee champ(I honestly feel horrible for what i have done to some people today). This ability also needs to have dmg back(more on that it the conclusion). The stacking mechanic was an attempt to make her feel like a warlord that leads her tribe or some crap. But this ability does nothing of the sort and completely undermines her character as a strong warrior, since she is so dependent on her team to do anything outside 1v1, and she hits like a fairy princess without it. http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/993/711/072.gif ^this is a 100% accurate representation of Sejuani without her passive.

Her ult The new ult feels really really bad to use. The "increased dmg the farther it goes" is a silly gimich that not only undermines her playstyle/theme as a diver/disrupter that wants to be in the middle of everything, but also goes against the functionality of the ult itself. If you want the full dmg(which is the old ults dmg), you need to throw it long, but since the only real power of the ult is in the(now single target) stun; throwing it a long distance means that you probably wont get there before it wears off. This ult is also worthless if missed since it does ZERO dmg aoe until after it detonates which gives you even more reason to not throw it longer distances. However, if you decide that you don't wanna mess with that nonsense and throw it short, it's nothing but a single target stun that has(and i shit you not) less base dmg and scaling than other skill shot stuns(that are not ultimates) like Xerath E, Anivia Q, Ahri charm, Syndra E etc. Dispite that, this is 80-90% of what you use it for before since this ult is so weak it is best used as a means of getting a second proc of her passive 20% max hp. Using the her ult to initiate is a considerable loss of dps since you will not be able to stun the target again.

In conclusion this rework did a lot more harm than good. The only real good IMO being the new W functionality. It fails at both improving her gameplay by making her FAR less satisfying to play as well as VERY comp dependent(Who likes being invalidated simply because your team doesn't "pick the right champions"). The old sej loved to start big fights and get in the middle of everything. The way this rework plays is totally opposite. Now She does almost entirely single target dmg. If you team fight then you are completely dependent on your melee teammates(if you have any) to do anything, since sej has NO CHANCE of getting her E proced in a team fight by herself. Her dmg is pathetic outside of her passive. Her Q and W are nothing more than "slave abilities" to get E stun procs. She now feels like a really crappy Braum. Her stun is so much less satisfying and generally useful as CC. She has the scaling of a sup now. Building dmg does next to nothing, because all of her dmg(her passive) is a set amount with no scaling. Her Q lost 110 base dmg, her W does nothing but slow, her E lost 80 base dmg and 20% AP scaling that is now single target, and her ult is(see above). If you too her passive away she would be out damaged by any sup in the game and that is something that the rioter who made this rework should honestly feel ashamed about. She doesn't scale with anything anymore. You build tank because you will do the same dmg either way, so might as well live longer. The only viable dmg build for her now is AD(another damn shame) since between all the cc you have time to get a ton of free wacks in with your flail, which in 1v1 is absolutely disgusting cancer to play against. I'm very disappointed by this rework and it has a lot of inherent problems that won't be fixed with number changes. I think that if another rework is not an option then, a "revert" is the best option IMO. She is far less healthy, far less fun, and far less thematically true than old sejuani.

This got really long, but thank you very much for reading if you made it through.

Edit: Trundle is another insane/game breaking interaction i missed.

66 Comments

LankPants5/5/2017, 9:02:01 AM17 votes

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/610/825/eec.jpg

Pretty much spot on for every single point. I agree that W is the high-point of the rework, but it's almost like Riot knew that then actively went against it and designed the entire kit around her dumb E/Passive/R/Passive combo while marginalising the only good thing they managed to create.

DoctorBeef5/5/2017, 1:17:12 PM10 votes

Being a Sejuani main I love some of the changes they made. Most importantly the change to her jungle clear speeds. Which was her biggest problem, and her Ultimate being super strong.

First off anyone who plays Sejuani knows how bad her jungle clears were, and how it was an epic battle with the scuttle crabs just to take them out. The new way her E + damage works any camp can be cleared quickly and efficiently.

Her old Ulti I always held onto it for the perfect situations. It was far to important to use otherwise with such a long CD. It was also such a game changer that if you dont land the perfect ult on half the team or all the carries. You felt otherwise useless.

With her new Ulti I use it much more freely and sometimes just to assist my mid lane or bot lane to help them finish off a kill. I don't have to worry about landing it on a full team anymore. Its also up much quicker and overall I prefer the new over the old.

Her Q change I barely noticed.

Her W even though doesn't do much damage, serves the purpose of her old E which is to smack and slow down who your fighting. Its a much more fun play style then spam W and E and stay as close to the enemy doing AOE damage the whole time.

She currently feels strong which being my main, its nice to see. If she needs nerf then so be it, but for the love of god. Let her clear the jungle decently so that any carry jungle cant bully the complete crap out of her. Lee/Graves/Elise/Rengar etc etc. Right now she can hold her own, hell I can even COUNTER JUNGLE NOW with out taking 10mins to clear a camp.

Just Blame Jenny5/5/2017, 10:45:43 AM7 votes

I really like the new W, though having played her a few games, her ult feels odd. Not necessarily in a usability sense, but rather, finally unlocking it elicits as massive "meh" from me. The rest of her kit feels stronger.

I mean, I'm glad that she doesn't have just her ult to feel impactful now (which was a problem before), but I feel Riot went a little too far in the opposite direction.

Knoyle5/5/2017, 4:18:13 PM5 votes

I feel like some of these were more harsh than deserved. I'm fine with her Q and the W change actually worked out better than i thought it would. While I am not really happy with how the Ult works now and how most of her power comes from her e passive now there is one thing that really stood out for me that i could appreciate.

She can clear faster AND healthier. now I don't just not avoid raptors but I like to steal them if i can as well. one of the things I've wanted most was to be able to keep up and compete with those every other game weeb nuggets LeeSin Graves Yasuo and for a few short hours my Tank fantasy was realized. But of course I knew she was legitimately overpowered and it had to come to an end (but fuck dude it ended fast). I hope that Riot can find a way to make her whole kit satisfying and rewarding without having to be as stupid as Graves or LeeSin. Honestly while here passive is nice and e is rewarding It feels like you are a bit jipped when e is on cooldown. She's meant to be in the thick of it til the end which makes the idea of being focused on something that has a cooldown seem a bit not right.

agbudar5/5/2017, 7:47:10 PM3 votes

i had the same Issue with Q actually and its FUKKIN horrible. her W is fun to play around with but as you said its only good for the minimal slow and passive stacking. her E and ult are stupid.

i feel cheated out of my money (sejuani is the only champ i got 2 skins on that i payed for) i feel cheated out of my mastery lvl 7 with the old sejuani it means absolutely nothing.

she is literally going doing the same road as Malzahar and end up being a pathetic support for some stupid niche that riot things will be perfectly fine because they are too arrogant/lazy to admit they were wrong.

who in the right mind thought a 40% max hp damage without any scaling was going to be a good adition to the game?

The Yetii Rider5/5/2017, 12:08:37 PM3 votes

Her E is fantastic. It lets her clear the jungle, it lets her get off many stuns in a fight, which is what a tank should be doing, and it's strong.

With the new item 3102 item, I doubt that Riot is going to be making many more AP tanks from now on. This whole idea of battle mage, and tanky AP items means that there is going to be too much overlap if tanks have AP ratios. We saw that with the Rammus changes, they tried to rip a whole 40% off his Q and then put it back when people complained. So asking for an AP ratio probably won't get you anywhere.

Her W doesn't need to deal damage. There's a slow on the second hit and more importantly it's a way to apply her E stacks from range, which is why you use the ability. It's not about damage and the fact that W damage was what Riot chose to nerf in the hotfix proves it.

Q is for knock ups. She's a vanguard, she shouldn't have an escape. She goes in, she tanks, she gets some kills for her team and then dies. And dashing "past" people? Sounds like a buff to me. If you are having a hard time dashing past people without stopping, that means that when I'm trying to hit someone, it's harder for them to side step.

Her passive dealing all the damage is important. It's melee range. You have to be up close and personal to deal damage as Sejuani. None of her abilities deal damage. That's good. That's the stated goal of the tank update. If the enemy team manages to peel her off, or they body block the carry, she can't get kills. She is rewarded for sticking to someone and given tools to do that if she plays well. It's an elegant design.

Thefrostyviking5/5/2017, 12:12:04 PM3 votes

It's a bit sad, they reworked her kit to shift power away from her ultimate.

And all that power went right from the ultimate and the W into the E instead.

Riot, masters of not repeating their mistakes....oh wait.....

rtbf2256182415/6/2017, 5:45:20 AM2 votes

In conclusion this rework did a lot more harm than good.

Honestly, which one of these didn't?

TengenToppaGnar5/5/2017, 12:16:50 PM2 votes

Sejuani is pretty over-tuned no doubt about it, but I think the main problem is her god awful, holy crap HP chunking Passive. Gnar doesn't even chunk that much with his Hyper Procs, and he's no where near as bloody tanky. In fact he kinda... sucks with itemization right now. Items he used are now more catered to a specific type of champion, and it doesn't sync with his flip-flop fighting style.

EDIT: Just fought one btw, and I need to look at the replay, but I feel like she chunked out like 700HP on my Taric cause of her passive.

Atanchan5/5/2017, 2:21:59 PM2 votes

I seriously don't understand why everyone is so caught up on the fact that her W deals physical damage. It's like Sejuani players have literally never played like Tristana or Zed or Yasuo or Trundle or Wukong or Nocturne or any of the cavalcade of champs that have a primary damage type but an ability ( or abilit_ies_ ) that deal another damage type.

Which are usually not meant to be a main source of damage, hence not working with their main penetration or amp and usually scaling with a stat that isn't their primary damage stat, but also have the benefit of suffering less from that fact than you'd think due to the fact that enemies stacking a resistance against your primary damage type doesn't affect them in the slightest.

I mean, I know they buffed it to deal more damage than a stiff breeze, but it's still primarily a tool to stack up Frost on her own. It would make more sense to ask for them to give her Q and E actual base damage and AP ratios once they've hopefully sapped a ton of her damage budget out of her passive.

Aspynn5/5/2017, 10:40:33 PM1 votes

Well in my experience, I absolutely love the new Sejuani and I think she's extremely powerful. Take this with a grain of salt, because I've only actually played 3 games with it, but as an avid AP Sejuani player I was devastated to see her new kit and scalings, but nevertheless I decided to try it again, and was extremely impressed. Honestly, her E is a VERY overloaded part of her kit, like you said, while in the first game I played with her, since I was midlane and was the only melee on my team, I used it a total of 3 times the entire game, and since I was building AP and that's the only other non-ultimate AP scaling ability on her kit, that really doesn't seem great. But I still did fine and felt REALLY powerful all except for the frist 5 levels. But as I have discovered, anyone that trades with combos in lane CANNOT fight sejuani in lane. My second game grags couldn't TOUCH me in lane, I dodged his qs and mitigated any ew or ewq combo damage that he had with my passive. Third game I played into a syndra, she caught me coming back from a botlane roam in a bush, comboed me, and did like 250 damage. She can be a little oppressive even I'd say with it, and in some matchups she just flat out wins laning, even if she can't poke very well, when she all ins or takes a heavy trade, she will ALWAYS win. Anyways, with 3 ap items, (morellos, GLP, ludens) I was able to oneshot carries all game long, was INCREDIBLY tanky for my short assassinations because of my passive, and then I continued to build tank and dominate everything. She has some decently low cooldowns and can chase very well, and is very hard to chase herself with her q and her w bop slow. As far as her new ultimate, I just don't treat it the same as the old ultimate. If I ult someone up close, I still oneshot them, or do so with my team so they die almost instantly, or I just treat it as like a short range ashe ultimate. I've only noticed the ult explosion kill one person so far, but it does a LOT of damage in a teamfight if you hit the carry and everybody runs to save them. Anyways I am totally in love with the new Sejuani and think I have found my new main since old AP Caitlyn got fucked. Like I said, take all this with a grain of salt, these were normal games, 1 or 2 of them I did with friends, and It's not like my mmr or elo is any higher than like gold-plat or something (IDFK) I agree with everyone on the whole "she's not a leader like you said she would be nyeeeeeeh" but I don't really give a shit. She's fun and I like it, so that's how I feel :) edit: I also love her new waveclear. Line it up right and a w-q will take out the whole wave. Way better than before when w q e wouldn't even do the job! I love the new w smack!