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NEW Ranking System

Jevokan·3/23/2015, 10:18:20 PM·2 votes·2,320 views

The ranking system needs to be based on performance. Performance as can be measured with : Total Kills, Assists, Damage Dealt, Creep Score, Buildings Destroyed, Dragons Slain, Barons, Total Deaths, Gold Made, etc (Basically anything positive). No matter what his stats are; a player can't win LP by losing and he can't lose LP by winning. The stats just determine the multiplier used to calculate how much LP is won or lost.

For example you won: You won the game and you did good in all categories. Your multiplier will be something like 4.0 x the base of say 5. Therefore your total LP gain is 4 x 5 = 20 LP. If you did bad in all the categories you might end up with a multiplier of 1.1. Therefore your final LP score would be 1.1 x 5 = 5.5 LP

For example you lost: You did great in all categories but still lost the game. Your multiplier is something like 1.1 x the base of say -5. Therefore your total LP loss is 1.1x -5 = -5.5 LP

You did awful and most likely fed or trolled. Your multiplier is something like 5.0 x the base of -5. Your total loss is 5 x -5 = -25 LP

You AFK'ed. Your multiplier is something like 6 x the base of -5. Your total loss is 6 x -5 = -30 LP

If someone is AFK for 5 minutes at the start of the game, you all have the option to surrender with a low penalty. For example: 5 minutes in you know it will be a 4 on 5. You can all agree to surrender and lose 0LP or something really low like 2LP. Or you can vote to continue and still win. That beats having to wait 20 minutes for an almost sure outcome and then lose 21 LP for something you could not control.

After discussion, some people made a good point about supports falling behind. Well since a good support will typically get a lot of assists you can weight assists to count more than a kill. Therefore if you get 3 kills but 25 assists you will actually get more LP credit than the guy who got 25 kills and 3 assists. You would also get a lot of credit for wards placed. All in all this should average out with some fine tuning to allow the support to be able to get just as much or more LP than the other roles on the team depending on their performance.

Another valid point that was made is whether or not to include "damage taken" in the LP multiplier calculation. I think the best way to deal with it and the role tanks play is to remove "damage taken" from the calculation entirely.

If you're at the top of the list in any category, or all of them, then do you deserve to lose the same LP as the guy who went AFK or fed the entire game?

I don't think people would abuse it the way you say. Why? Because doing something as pointless as placing wards at the fountain would not help them win the game. They would just lose LP in the end so what's the point? Let's see, we have 5 minutes to try and win. Should I try and win and gain 25 LP or should I try and lose LP by placing wards and lose 2 less LP? I think all this abuse you foresee would not happen for this reason. People still try to win. If they think that continuing the game will lose them more LP they will surrender.

Another thing that would prevent the scenarios you describe with warding: For each objective you lose, you lose more LP. Therefore if you decide to stop trying and just place wards you will lose more LP as the enemy team takes all your objectives. Instead you can either try to win or you can surrender and cut your losses.

The irony of this is you don't see how abused the current system is. I think the current system is far more open to abuse with people going AFK on purpose when they start to lose, trolling when they don't get the lane they want, KS'ing as support just because they don't want to play the support role, never warding because it would cost them extra money even though it would help the team, jungling to buy more items rather than helping the team when needed. I think under the current system people are far MORE selfish. You have to be blind not to realize that.

30 Comments

Deep Terror Nami3/23/2015, 10:25:23 PM7 votes

No. At least not in solo queue.

If your game was based on certain scores, people would strive only to raise that score and nothing else, no matter if it caused them to lose the game or not.

  • CS is important? GG you have people that just farm all day in lane, go to your lane and jungle if his lane isn't safe.

  • KDA is important? GG you have people who will run from any fight where it looks like they might die, even if their sacrifice meant winning.

  • What about the guy who is fed and won't let anybody else get anything? I guess you're screwed, you get almost no LP and he gets a ton even though he got fed because of your ganks.

  • How about champions that get assists easily, even simply from Global Ults? Soraka, Karthus, anyone with large radius buffs (Gangplank, Sona, etc.). They would be used specifically to climb the ranked ladder because they literally get you more LP, not because they affected the game more. No reason to pick anything that can't do that.

This is a team game; there should never be an incentive for you to not work as a team.

COWmanLord3/24/2015, 2:51:13 AM3 votes

Let me just grab the freakin essay I ended up writing in response to a previous post saying the same thing. Really glad i decided to save this in a word doc.

Creating an accurate system to score each player individually would be nearly impossible and saying that isn't nearly as much of an exaggeration as you might think it is. Riot would have to create what would most likely be the longest and most complicated piece of code ever written in order to make it accurately measure every play

For example you place a ward in dragon pit. Do you get points or lose points?

This seems obvious. Why would it be bad to have dragon warded? Well, here are a list of questions you have to ask to truly know if that was a good ward.

1. Where in the pit is the ward. You may have placed the ward in the back of dragon pit, meaning it gets you less vision of the river, but it is also less likely to get swept or found by a pink depending on where it is.

2. Was the ward just to check over the wall to see if they are getting Dragon? If the ward is just to avoid facechecking, is it worth any less than a regular ward, placed for vision? It may keep you from walking into a bad situation, or let you get the timer, but it could also just end up being a waste of a ward.

3. Will Dragon spawn within the time the ward is placed? Clearly placing a sight ward that will just fade away because dragon doesn't spawn for 3 mins is a waste, but if you didn't have the timer you may not have known that.

4. What role are you playing? Typically it's either the support or junger who keeps dragon warded. However is your ward worth any less if you are the mid laner or adc? What if you are the top laner and you walked all the way down from top lane just to place a ward?

5. What was your team doing while you warded? For example your team was grouping top and pushing for the inhib while you were warding, and loses a teamfight because you were not there. Or what if your team was grouping for drag? Maybe a teamfight had just ended and you were placing the ward before you backed.

6. Did anyone find your ward? If someone got extra gold because the found and killed your ward that helps their team, but how does it affect your score? Maybe you placed it in a rarely swept spot and they just got lucky or misclicked. Maybe your ward was in the obvious place, but your team needed that spot warded.

7. What happened while you warded? You could have missed farm or gotten killed while warding. Maybe you went to ward as a support and your adc got hit by a blitz hook and died.

This is a quick list of different things to take into account even when all you did was place a ward in a specific spot. As you can see each of these questions also generated several more specific questions to go along with it. Now imagine you multiply this for every spot on the map you can ward. Some of those spots would have more questions to ask, some would have less. In the end though there would be a huge amount of programming to be done, simply to cover warding. You would have to do even more do calculate every aspect of a teamfight.

Now you should clearly see that creating an accurate system that can thoroughly evaluate every aspect of a game would be ridiculous to attempt. Not only because of the incredible amount of time and resources that would need to be spent to develop this program, but also because of the godlike computer system needed to maintain it. Riot would need to have a system of servers running an unimaginably complex piece of code for every single player playing a ranked game all at the same time, for every single action they make. The data storage needed would also have to be gigantic.

You may be asking, "Why can't they just do something simpler than this piece of god-code?" The answer to that: expoitability. If the code isn't this complex then it would be too easy to exploit. For example if every ward a player placed gave that player 0.01 points, then people would just buy sightstone and sit in base for 20 minutes spamming wards. Even if you make it so that only well placed wards give you those points, then people will just race to the areas which give more points to try and place wards before anyone else can. It needs to be this complex to get rid of the potential for exploitation.

TLDR:

  1. Riot needs to make the most complex piece of code in the world to accurately judge everyone's individual performance.

  2. If they don't people can just exploit it.

  3. They would also need a god-computer to run that code.

ZephyrDrake3/23/2015, 11:32:13 PM2 votes

the instant you make LP be based more on how well you do in the game that just literally benefits certain roles over others. Supports are going to be screwed just by the fact that everyone is getting more kills/cs/objective kills while all they have going for them is assists and that's not even saying much to when people get camped making them have bad scores at the end of the game.

The instant you make LP gains/losses be affected by anything other than winning or losing means people will do whatever they can to extend a winning game just to inflate their LP gains as much as possible and will make people try even less when it's a losing game and just waiting for the enemy to push down mid and win just so they lose the less amount of LP as possible.

Sorry to say this but your "new" system is worst than what we have now

Jevokan3/23/2015, 11:14:26 PM1 votes

You make some broad statements with very little evidence or examples to prove your statements. So your argument failed so you will insult me. Typical. Not surprised really that so many of you on these forums are exactly as toxic as the people in game.

Jevokan3/23/2015, 11:25:21 PM1 votes

Well I would argue that by the time they made that decision the game is close to over and however they affected the game will be apparent in their stats.

When given the choice to win and get 30LP for their good performance or lose and lose -5 based on their good performance someone will go for the win every time.

Jevokan3/23/2015, 11:38:41 PM1 votes

Not really since any other role besides a support will be hindered by having to buy a sightstone. If warding counts for a lot then you will have better games overall because people will ward more. Supports will try and do what they are supposed to. Healing others, buying team oriented items, those will be rewarded as well.

People won't extend a winning game simply because a losing team can just choose not to continue fighting and surrender. There will also be diminishing returns at a certain point, so it would be pointless to try and rack up 60 kills when you are only going to get 1 lp more between that and 30 kills.

There are no problems only solutions.

The current system is broken as can be. A new system has to start from something based on performance, that's the only fair way to do it.

Jevokan3/24/2015, 12:00:18 AM1 votes

So how is killing people going to hurt your team? If anything taking out some of the other team will only help you accomplish the objectives. You make absolutely no sense. How is it going to weaken your chances of winning?

Why would someone go out of his way to just gather CS when his team is losing the game? Especially since CS is not as important as Objectives. He's not going to GAIN any LP he will only LOSE LP if he does this.

The very things that people are encouraged to do are what they do anyway when they are trying to win a game. Nothing will change apart from the way the LP is calculated. Any sorts of abuses noticed, will be able to be recognized and dealt with in a patch in due course.

People could actually see a breakdown at the end of the game in the stats. They can see what caused them to gain LP and what didn't. Then the next time they play they will be more team oriented and focused on objectives rather than kills. Kills should be really low on the LP priority. Objectives will be most important.

I really don't see how anything proposed is in opposition to teamplay or trying to win. I think you need to reread my original post. I think you're trying too hard to be negative and not trying enough to understand and open your mind to something new.

Jevokan3/24/2015, 9:23:14 PM1 votes

I don't think people would abuse it the way you say. Why? Because doing something as pointless as placing wards at the fountain would not help them win the game. They would just lose LP in the end so what's the point? Let's see, we have 5 minutes to try and win. Should I try and win and gain 25 LP or should I try and lose LP by placing wards and lose 2 less LP? I think all this abuse you foresee would not happen for this reason. People still try to win. If they think that continuing the game will lose them more LP they will surrender.

Another thing that would prevent the scenarios you describe with warding: For each objective you lose, you lose more LP. Therefore if you decide to stop trying and just place wards you will lose more LP as the enemy team takes all your objectives. Instead you can either try to win or you can surrender and cut your losses.

The irony of this is you don't see how abused the current system is. I think the current system is far more open to abuse with people going AFK on purpose when they start to lose, trolling when they don't get the lane they want, KS'ing as support just because they don't want to play the support role, never warding because it would cost them extra money even though it would help the team, jungling to buy more items rather than helping the team when needed. I think under the current system people are far MORE selfish. You have to be blind not to realize that.

Jevokan3/25/2015, 9:24:08 PM1 votes

All your points come to nothing. This system is way better.

Jevokan3/26/2015, 4:34:28 PM1 votes

I should just quit this fiasco and wait for Heroes of the Storm.

Jevokan3/23/2015, 10:30:43 PM1 votes

I don't think you are understanding it right.

If you lose the game you aren't winning any LP, you are still losing LP no matter what your scores are. You just won't lose as much LP if your scores were high on the losing team. So why would someone choose to live to lose LP as opposed to die to win the fight and therefore gain LP? Your argument makes no sense.

The guy who is fed is not getting as much LP as the guy who got 25 assists. So you are not screwed. He also won't be getting as much LP as the guy who secured 6 objectives while he screwed around most of the game and only secured 1.

Guys that get assists easily? So what, that's helping the team win. I don't see them get 100 assists, its still a reasonable level. People are still going to choose champions that make them win the game as they do now. There's no point in picking a champ that gets lots of assists if you're going to lose in the end anyway.

Objectives would be weighted heavily. If you are securing objectives but not getting many kills you will still have a much better LP multiplier than the guy who got 20 kills but 0 objectives.

On the contrary nothing I proposed is an incentive to not work as a team. It actually encourages more team play.

Jevokan3/23/2015, 10:48:21 PM1 votes

Well if their greed ends up costing them the game they will be at the lowest tiers eventually. If you did good in my system you will lose less LP so you will end up rising up from that crowd. That's the whole point of this new system.

Jevokan3/23/2015, 11:48:09 PM

The current system works very poorly. I see more complaints than praise about it.

Doesn't matter if you place a lot of wards if you still lose. So it will make you lose a little less LP but you still lose LP if you lose.

The new system still encourages winning and team play even more so than the old system. How do you fail to see that?