@Riot, you are ruining Garen as a champion

YSeT9iEzJK·8/10/2016, 2:20:17 PM·23 votes·3,067 views

Garen is such a well-known and cool champion. From his "spin2win" and "Garen is a brush" memes to his "DEMACIA" running at you spinning on you to death.

When will you realise Garen is not strong, and is not in an okay position Riot ?

A buff wont even do much at this point, he has FAR too much counterplay that I am on the verge of reaching Platinum this season (solo preference) that I am actually getting punished for getting better at the champion.

He needs another rework, a proper fully thought out rework this time.

You can get rid of his %missing health true damage ult, because thats the only thing that is stopping him from progressing as a champion...

for the love of God I hope you haven't just added him to your "forgotten champion list".

69 Comments

Welly Inc8/10/2016, 2:34:06 PM13 votes

YES

Riot logic: add villian mechanic to cover up the fact we did a shitty job at reworking Garen

xXxAltaïrrxXx8/10/2016, 2:23:27 PM11 votes

I agree with you, he needs a rework.He isnt a champ atm, he is a joke.

Edit:Tbh he was always a joke champ. hehe xd

Teridax688/10/2016, 3:33:00 PM7 votes

I agree with giving Garen more changes, but for different reasons. Garen is moderately strong right now, as shown by decent play and win rates (3.86% and 49.28%, respectively, so he could use a buff but not really anything too drastic), and his counterplay's pretty variable: if you have range, high-uptime CC and/or good mobility, he becomes very easy to kite, but against many melee champions, particularly low-mobility ones, he doesn't really present his opponents with the most interesting counterplay. These, and a relatively low overall competitive scalability, are core issues that existed before his Juggernaut update, and have remained mostly unchanged. He technically has a niche now, but his Villain mechanic is entirely contingent on him being able to reach his targets, whereas every other Juggernaut has a means of applying at least some power without being already in melee range of their opponents (Darius has his pull, Illaoi has her E, Skarner has his E and spires, Nasus has his slow, even Mordekaiser has his ult, W and E).

Overall, out of the four juggernauts that got updated, only Darius truly succeeded, and the others either missed the mark somewhat (e.g. Garen and Skarner) or went in the wrong direction (e.g. Morde originally being turned into a duo laner). Unlike the class updates that followed, the M.O. for them was basically to tack on a new mechanic to each of their kits, readjust their stats and see where things went from there, instead of looking into potentially deeper design issues (including their binary relationship with kiting and range, which hasn't quite been resolved properly). This worked for Darius, who basically just needed better sticking power and a way of building tanky DPS to sustain his time-bomb niche, but for the others, they still don't really have the strongest niche or most interesting gameplay, and in Garen's case his Villain mechanic is too unreliable in competitive play to really count as a niche-setter. He needs a way of exerting power that doesn't require him to be directly touching his opponents, and overall his power needs to be made more interesting (his W is still utterly boring, and his Villain buff doesn't have nearly as much strategic gameplay as it would suggest, as priority targets are often unreachable to him, whereas his basic Q-auto-E sequence doesn't give targets many options to react properly to him).

Dovahkiin4168/10/2016, 2:40:42 PM7 votes

He's fine in low elo, which is what he is meant for. He's a beginner champ, someone to get the basics of being a tank down for the newbies. He's simple, and I have zero problems when I play Garen.

Garen is meant for low elo, not high elo.

In low elo, Garen is scary. Higher elo players know how to play against him.

The problem isn't Garen. It's you're too high up to be playing him effectively.

DunkinNoobs8/10/2016, 4:17:05 PM7 votes

Garen isn't what's holding you back. I do just fine with him on both this account and my diamond account; if you can't get plat with Garen, that's on you. You can start by not rushing Sunfire Cape and going Cleaver first instead.

Rhyleman8/10/2016, 2:59:58 PM6 votes

garen weak? are you kidding me? he is probably the easiest champion in league and probably one of the most rewarding he can do the same damage as a fed rengar with no more than a black cleaver. they really dont need to buff garen because if you want a more rewarding champion you should just play a more complicated champion. try to pick up a champion like yasuo or riven. because if you want more of a challenge and to be rewarded for your skill on a champion dont pick a champion that your skill is to the max on after like 3 games. like garen is rewarded for deing to the enemy top laner to make them the villian so if you die in lane. you are easily able to comeback from a death. garen really doesnt need a rework or a buff or a nerf hes fine just the way he is. the people that want an easy champ and a free win can pick garen if they want but if you want to play a fun champ why not just play a different champion.

IS3E531E3F9643918/10/2016, 2:43:08 PM5 votes

garen his problem is that there is no dodging, there is only staying out of range, so you make him too strong and he becomes oppresive

Malignant Vemira8/10/2016, 3:13:26 PM4 votes

Yeah, after they made it so arpen ad garen couldnt rofl stomp pubs anymore, lost interest, never played him again. Same as when they nerfed sions base ad from #1 to bottom 5, 350 damage trinity procs or gtfo

Stephenizgod8/10/2016, 7:27:48 PM4 votes

His Passive is pretty strong, but I wouldn't be too upset if he lost it in favor of a different more interactive form of health regain.

I feel like his Q should remain an Auto-Attack Reset, I am back and forth on whether it should have a Silence or not. The Q creates plays in the laning phase, if the Garen Q's to get a minion this opens up a chance to trade, however the Garen can use his Q to bait the enemy into coming on to him, just one example.

His W can stay or go, but i think the damage reduction needs to stay somewhere in his kit.

His E is Iconic Garen and shouldn't be touched. I don't like the current form of his E at all.

His R is also Iconic Garen, you can remove the Villain mechanic for all i care, but the ult needs to remain similar in some fashion. People complain about Garen's point click nuke but Darius has a better version (i suppose this is debatable) with far more synergy with the rest of his kit. I think Garen's ult should be altered to fit his kit a bit more.

Only Play Darius8/10/2016, 3:57:45 PM3 votes

So you're trying to tell me Darius was literally the only one who came out better for Riot's first class update?

I like reworked Garen more, much faster spin late game and true damage to help his damage stay relevant whereas before he fell off hard.

Swiftstrike48/11/2016, 12:29:32 AM3 votes

Garen is interesting because immediately after the juggernaut updates he was pretty strong.

I forgot what changes they made to his kit that weakened him, but maybe he is running into the same issue as the other juggernauts: several soft nerfs from itemization.

A lot of items that juggernaut would typically build were gradually nerfed from the beginning of preseason to the start of the season. The mastery changes may have also nerfed the juggernauts a bit too?

I am not sure. Darius feels fine, Garen Mordekaiser and Nasus all are on the weaker side. I consider Illaoi and Poppy juggernauts as well. While illaoi has had problems until maybe recently poppy after her rework was just INSANELY strong. Nerfs have begun to effect her, but I think even modest buffs to her (which are forthcoming) may over tune her.

Skarner is pretty strong atm, but he has shifted from a juggernaut to something else almost. He has a crazy high win rate and doesn't really do "juggernaut" stuff.

If they adjust Garen's kit a bit that would be nice, but I really don't know how they would change it. His Q and E are pretty essential to his kit (well the silence on the Q is important).

I like the passive on his W, but the shield seems pretty weak? Maybe they could adjust his passive, but he does need some type of sustain.

I will say I am seeing fewer Garen's the higher I have climbed this season, but I don't know if that it is related to newer players "outgrowing" Garen to more complicated champions, or the fact that I heard former Garen mains saying that he is no longer the "early lane bully".

BIH Diamond8/10/2016, 6:08:07 PM2 votes

When will you realise Garen is not strong, and is not in an okay position Riot ?

Lol you're a joke. Garen is brain dead easy and strong as fuck already

ripGarenGod8/11/2016, 10:40:00 PM2 votes

i dont comment often considering i am maybe a exception to most garen mains, but riot will be buffing garen mobility and his early e ranks soon TM, how i know, cause i know, i am reaching D3 with just garen, will help alot to get to masters easier once garen buffs come.

Immortal spax8/10/2016, 7:12:43 PM2 votes

What, buff to a 48% winrate champ? Are you crazy? Isnt better buff brand who have a 52% winrate?

Cmon bro, lets be serious...

JerulEon8/25/2016, 3:42:42 AM1 votes

Keep playing Garen. You can easily get to mid-Platinum with him. After that, people are smart enough to play against him because he's pretty trash compared to all the meta picks. Wish Riot would buff him.