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PSA: The meaning of "Counterplay"

Fury and Emperor·11/15/2014, 12:15:35 PM·59 votes·5,136 views

Pressing a button isn't counterplay.

Buying an item isn't counterplay.

Counterpicking isn't counterplay.

Counterplay means doing something skillful to negate an opponent's skillful move. Vayne tumble is counterplay to skillshots, because it requires (some) skill to aim a skillshot, and it requires (some) skill to tumble out of its way. Using cleanse is counterplay to Thresh hooks, because it comes down to who presses their button first after Thresh lands the hook.

But buying armor is not counterplay to Talon, because buying armor does not require any skill. That's just a counter. Talon was nerfed because he had only counters (strong ones) but no counterplay. Same for Leblanc.

And Sion was given counterplay (which amounted to a nerf) because there was no way to outplay a targetted stun and burst if you were melee, whereas ranged nukers could just poke him down. It came down to which champion you picked, and picking the right champion doesn't require skill.

The more you know!

83 Comments

Worgslarg11/15/2014, 12:44:30 PM19 votes

I'd argue that some items are forms of counterplay, like skillful use of zhonyas.

Pika31011/15/2014, 11:39:41 PM7 votes

I honestly don't believe Riot understands what counterplay actually is or it's being propagandized to justify their own bias. Thus far they've used it solely as an excuse to make blatant nerfs without tradeoff to underplayed and underpowered champions to completely force them out of the meta entirely. Riot is adding their idea of so-called "counterplay" only to champions that already have it, thus giving them too much counterplay and removing their viability as a playable champion.

ccseancc14311/15/2014, 6:52:32 PM5 votes

Zhonyas and GA or straight up counters to Talon not counter play. Talon was a suicide champ before his silence was gone. he would go in blow up his target and die. But now, he just gets wrecked by Zhonyas. I personally think Talon should receive a reset on his stealth within his ult after kill or assist. 1 second for assist 2 seconds for kill.

PaperMache711/15/2014, 8:11:26 PM4 votes

Well said, I don't understand why so many people don't understand the concept.

Fed by Snu Snu11/15/2014, 12:46:55 PM4 votes

Is that why Talon is allowed to 1 shot up to 250 armor nowadays?

Rebonack11/15/2014, 5:55:16 PM4 votes

Okay.

I'll ask it.

What's wrong with a champion lacking counterplay aside from 'don't get within X range unless they have already blown their cooldowns'?

Quantum Weeb11/15/2014, 8:36:49 PM4 votes

Counterpicking isn't counterplay.

This x10, I can't stress enough how much it annoys me when people bring this up as "counterplay."

Using cleanse is counterplay to Thresh hooks, because it comes down to who presses their button first after Thresh lands the hook.

This one I disagree with, simply because Thresh has a delay before he can hit Q again. The player with Cleanse should never be beat in this situation unless they simply have a slower reaction time.

Overall I agree with your post, people really need to learn the difference between countering and counterplay.

Graiskye11/16/2014, 8:13:01 AM4 votes

Using cleanse is counterplay to Thresh hooks, because it comes down to who presses their button first after Thresh lands the hook.

Lol, tell that to all the people playing on the east coast.

forist11/15/2014, 3:42:34 PM3 votes

So, using cleanse on a thresh hook is somehow different than using cleanse on a pre-nerf cut throat??? I don't see the logic in that, but maybe its just me that thinks there are pretty easy ways to counter a 1 second long cc.

SnowFall11/16/2014, 11:23:23 AM3 votes

Pressing a button isn't counterplay.

Buying an item isn't counterplay.

Counterpicking isn't counterplay.

Counterplay means doing something skillful to negate an opponent's skillful move. Vayne tumble is counterplay to skillshots, because it requires (some) skill to aim a skillshot, and it requires (some) skill to tumble out of its way. Using cleanse is counterplay to Thresh hooks, because it comes down to who presses their button first after Thresh lands the hook.

But buying armor is not counterplay to Talon, because buying armor does not require any skill. That's just a counter. Talon was nerfed because he had only counters (strong ones) but no counterplay. Same for Leblanc.

And Sion was given counterplay (which amounted to a nerf) because there was no way to outplay a targetted stun and burst if you were melee, whereas ranged nukers could just poke him down. It came down to which champion you picked, and picking the right champion doesn't require skill.

The more you know!

You mean who has less ping

brad11/16/2014, 10:27:20 PM2 votes

"pressing a button isnt counterplay"

"buying an item isnt counterplay"

...

"cleansing thresh hook is counterplay"

is that or is that not pressing a button and/or buing quick silver sash (then pressing a button)

????

this whole game is pressing buttons and buying items dude

FantasySniper11/15/2014, 8:06:35 PM2 votes

Actually, Vayne's Tumble is a very minor use of counterplay, as the hitbox does not update until she finishes the animation. (Unless they've fixed that, but I don't think so)

But GJ, make a thread explaining "outplayed" and "played" now.

Wolfeur11/15/2014, 11:40:22 PM1 votes

I disagree with you. Buying good stuff, picking wisely and casting abilities are counterplay. Counterplay (as you like to write it) is playing while countering. If I buy an item that negates the power of my enemy, I'm counterplaying. There is no need for skill to counterplay...