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[Discussion] Its been almost a week, thoughts on Gnar?

Eapenator·8/19/2014, 5:44:21 PM·4 votes·956 views

To start off, my own thoughts (reminder that I do not own Gnar, I only played him on PBE.

Visuals - Great Game play - Weak

The worst part about this is that Gnar seems like a really fun and interactive champion to play. However currently he seems to be quite under tuned regarding reliability and ability to trade as mini gnar. His Mega Gnar form also seems to suffer the same issues after his initial transformation burst combo.

Mini Gnar Attack Pattern - From games where I played against Gnar, In order for him to be able to get into range to lay any meaningful harass (auto q auto/ q auto auto/3 autos), I would be able to lay down a combo and demolish him (most champion spells are 500 - 600 range, significantly higher than Gnar's range of influences). This is even worse when the enemy top laner has a heal/shield, because their damage not only hits you before you can hit them, but

a) they will come out of your trades quite healthy, unless you all in

b) They will zone you and block your attempts to farm with q when ahead by blocking the q, stopping the range.

Q - It is pretty easy to dodge his intial q cast towards you, (on its path backwards, you tend to forget it since it flies very far). Other than using this to add a proc of hyper or kite, it seems to be his bread and butter tool for farming when zoned heavily (since he is very weak). Its wave clear is adequate.

**W, and E **- His mini form w and e seem to be good spells, with adequate range/cd/damage, compared to the risks. Many people keep focusing on his W percentage health damage, and exclaiming that it is problematic, however, its one thing to look at numbers, and its another to see how it translates into the game. Proccing hyper is extememly dangerous for mini Gnar, and often gets punished for attempting to.

I'm not saying that Mini Gnar should be like every other ranged top laner and just destroy the opponent with constant harass (in fact, other ranged top laners should be more like him), I feel that they could up the power level of this form so that it can be used to have good trade offs based on the Gnar's skill, rather than being extemely weak for the most part, and strongly one-sided against champions with zero to weak range of influence outside their melee range (singed, malphite nasus, udyr, skarner? (for those skarner top lanes), and chogath), which most champions seem to have success against.

Mega Gnar - Attack Pattern - **a) **Forcing a fight by transforming mid e into the enemy. Almost never works in lane, when the opponent has vision of you at all times. Unless through jungle help, or the element of surprise, Many times I am able to back off, and just wait till he transforms, and then punish him for being unable to reach me.

**b) **I Choose to engage him - Extremely Dangerous for most melees to engage Mega Gnar due to his increased states, and his ability to cc chain enemies, while refreshing his Q. Champs that can poke/maintain the distance have to still be wary for a flash ult into wall (flash w usually gives the enemy enough time to flash). However for the most part, maintaining the distance and laying good poke leaves mega gnar unable to retaliate.

**c) **Uses W to Transform (I'm engaging on him) - High burst and damage, probably one of the strongest combos of his kit, because he can turn around on you after baiting you and deliver alot of pain. good change you used your gap closer/escape to engage on him so there is a high change it will turn into a kill for either your (if he trans too late) or Gnar (a good Gnar can turns this into a kill).

**d) **Face check into a bush that contains gnar - combos you and you die (if on even ground/gold). You should be punished.

Q - Mega gnar's q is an amazing ability that feels great and does great damage. In close fights, its nearly impossible to dodge, and makes mega gnar an extremely dangerous foe by hitting q and weaving autos . However, with champions that keep the distance (rumble, nidalee, maokai, alistar (his w), lulu), and are able to disengage, alot of it depends of gnar's ability to land his q from afar, and if he misses, will be poked and whittled down until he dies

**W - ** When in melee range, mega Gnar's w can be really easy to dodge if you move between auto attacks (which every good melee player does to keep up with the enemy). Really hurts when you get hit, I find it pretty balanced considering its range, wind up, etc.

E - Other than the initiation trans with e, I feel this ability really fell short in mega form. could possibly add something other than an AOE slow, because right now, it functions like a really shitty second chance if you fail to close the gap the first time, only after waiting 10 seconds though. Other than mediocre damage on a really high cool down, it serves its purpose I guess.

R - I like it, good team fight spell, good damage, great use in 1 v 1, makes me (the enemy) feel pressured when I am near walls and fighting mega gnar. No issues here.

Conclusion - I like how Mega Gnar can Really 1 v 1 champions who have to be in melee range, because this is where he excels and he is compensated by being really weak at melee range when in his ranged form. Vice versa, I feel like his mini form needs to be better equipped to deal with champions that like to keep the distance, because currently, he seems to be completely out classed and destroyed by them. The trade off should be that ranged champions should have moments of power against Gnar by kiting him in Mega form, if they can dodge his initiation, and this is where Gnar should be punished, not in mini form.

So, do you think Gnar is in a good spot? Will be become like Lucian and need several tweaks before becoming really strong, or like Yasuo, where people need time to master him before we see success. Or maybe like vel'koz, who is strong, but not favourable in the meta (specific champs need to be nerfed/items changed etc). Or is he just over powered.

Post thoughts below - Eapenator

EDIT Darien seems to be wrecking Solo queue with Gnar, I'm looking into this. but it seems like I might have jumped the gun on saying Mini Gnar is weak :)

9 Comments

Baron von Jiggly8/19/2014, 6:48:40 PM3 votes

mini gnar

so as i see it his passive is ok

**Q-**needs more damage i kid you not i seriously could take these things like they were nothing in lane as poppy just from her W passive i had no armor items

**w-**HIS ENTIRE KIT is dependent on this 1 skill, mini Gnar might as well be ap as his other attacks do hardly any of the necessary damage for his ad scaling. and all correlate to this one skill which is sad because if he can't get close or have the attack speed to keep up with his opponent he is gonna get stomped. any champ with a gap closer can also EASILY use that to say screw you im tanky as shit and can get to you ima fuck you up before you go mega gnar and than he is screwed.

**E-this move is just fine really nothing truly bad about it. besides the fact that if a champ has a gap closer it can be pretty awful at times. ** Mega Gnar ....getting to this form in a fight is a pain in the ass by the time you get to it the enemy has focused you down and slaughtered you and your team.

QWER- MEGA GNARS ATTACKS ARE FINE ITS MINI GNAR THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

mk DILLY8/19/2014, 8:40:13 PM3 votes

I've played a lot of Gnar, both on PBE and live, and everything you said is incredibly spot on.

Mini Gnar has a fundamental problem in that if he ever gets into attack range - ever - he can instantly be killed by almost any champ at a similar level. He just can't safely get into range to do damage because he's too squishy with too short of a range. I like his shorter range and it keeps him from being too abusive in lane, so I think they just need to up his base defensive stats in Mini Gnar form a slight bit to allow him to trade better and survive hard engage.

Mega Gnar is more balanced, but I think he could use a little massaging. He has a fundamental flaw too, and that's that he has the least mobility of any champ in the game and he's worthless if he's not up close and personal. This is, however, balanced by the fact that if he DOES get next to you, he's completely OP. The result is if you perfectly pull off his hop transformation, you can 1 vs 3 a team, but more often than not, they back off because they know you're transforming, and then you feel frustrated as you just get kited or ganked and can't do anything. I'm less sure how to balance him or if he even needs it, but I'd love to see his jump in Mega Gnar get a little more distance. Maybe increase his jump distance and speed slightly in exchange for less damage in Mega Gnar? It might not even be needed - it's his Mini Gnar form that is making him feed and lose games.

Worgslarg8/19/2014, 5:55:15 PM2 votes

The biggest thing I feel on him is that his Q is very hard to catch if you change the way you're moving at all. it comes right back when not moving, but if you change directions at all, the indicator for the return path comes too late for you to reach it.

Snowy Comet8/19/2014, 8:16:28 PM1 votes

I think Gnar could be better to be honest. I played against a Gnar as Fiora and I just wrecked him so hard. I mean, the guy playing him was alright, but I zoned him really badly. Once Gnar misses his Q on me, I just go in, Q->Auto->Q->Disengage and before he even notices, he's lost a fourth, if not more of his health. With Fiora's gap closers, he can't really escape since you can Q twice, once to a minon and then to him. And riposte can just block one auto attack from landing, though it won't block his W proc if it is the third auto attack on you. And since you can block his auto attack, it makes it even harder for him to lane against a Fiora. I think Gnar needs a few more tweaks to be better in lane, either increasing his attack range or getting buffed in another area. His Mega Gnar form however, is pretty strong.

I played him in PBE and I don't really know what to say to be honest. He is bursty, even in late game against ADC's or any other squishy target. Managing his transformations is a bit troublesome too, depending on who you are fighting against. Also, once you see Gnar's rage meter is full or nearly full, all you have to do is play a little passively or get ready to dodge his skills. Additionally, you can't really be damage and tank. You have to be one or the other, or sacrifice a little of both to be a tanky damage dealer.

GuiltyGecko8/20/2014, 12:39:30 AM1 votes

I like Gnar, just a few two things I feel are terribly off about him.

First, I hate how both forms share cooldowns. It feels clunky.

Second, what was the design philosophy behind the reduce damage on the boomerang, AND what not let it hit twice? I just intuitively try to make it hit people twice like Ahri Q or Sivir Q, but that's useless. A boomerang ability should hit people twice.