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Resolve Tree Is Kinda Unfair In Terms Of Gold

JAYYYYYYYYYYYYCE·4/29/2018, 10:35:54 PM·34 votes·8,931 views

Just a few gold things id like to address with you guys.

NOTE I am using mostly the good/most popular runes and not going over all runes in each tree, thatd take far too long.

  • Resolve + Inspiration gives 270 Health level 18, which is equal to about 750 gold. While Domination/Sorcery gives 12 AD, equal to about 390 gold.

  • Grasp: Deal magic damage = to 4% of your max health, Heal 2% of your max health, Perma increase health by 5. Lets say you have 3k health, and you proc'd this about 20 times that game. 3k - 4% = 120 damage you deal which equals 4200 gold in long swords. 3k - 2% = 60 healing which is about 170 gold. 20 x 5 = 100 bonus perma health = 300 gold. 4200 + 300 + 170 = 4670 gold from just the keystone. Aery does 40 damage with a somewhat smaller cooldown, which equals 1400 gold in long swords. Add maybe like 600 gold for the shorter cooldown and we give it a total of 2k gold. Electrocute has a good 220 damage late game, which equals 7700 gold, but its cooldown is super long. By the time you get Electrocute off cooldown, you couldve proc'd Resolves ability 3 times by now. Making Electrocute only worth 7700 / 3 = 2566 gold compared to Grasp. |Grasp = 4670 gold| |Aery = 2000 gold| |Electrocute = 2566 gold|

  • Bone Platting: the next 3 attacks are block 50 damage. 3x50 = 150 health. 150 health = 400 gold Bone Platting = 400 gold. Sudden Impact gives 10 lethality after performing a move, 10 lethality = Dirk(1100) - 25 attack damage(875 Gold) = 225 gold. Sudden Impact = 225 Gold. Sudden impact has a bit of a lower cooldown that Bone platting, but you also have to proc Sudden impact by dashing, leap, teleport, blinking. Sudden impact = about 300 gold due to shorter cooldown but still having to proc. Mana Flow: 250 mana = 350 gold + 1% missing mana regen every 5 seconds. Bone platting = 45 sec cd, 45/5 = 9. 500 mana missing - 9% = 45 mana you regen in 45 seconds. 45 mana = 75 gold. Mana Flow = 425 gold |Bone Platting = 400 Gold| |Sudden Impact = about 300| |Mana Flow = 425 Gold|

  • Conditioning: After 10 min, gain 8 armor/mr, + 5% mr/armor. 8 armor = 160 gold. 8 MR = 144 gold. 304 total gold. The average tankyish/bruiser player has about 200+ armor and 100 mr. 200 + 5% = 10 armor. 100 + 5% = 5 mr. 10 armor = 200 gold. 5 mr 90 gold. 200 + 90 + 304 = 594 gold. Im unsure how id calculate wards, so Ill have to do Eyeball collector. Eyeball collector = 18 Attack damage = 630 gold in longswords. Celerity = +3% movement speed + adaptive damage from bonus movement speed. Base movement speed of Jayce is 335 movement speed. 335 + 45 (Ninja Tabis) = 380 ms. 380 + 3% = 11.4 ms. 11.4 ms = 136 gold. 11.4 + 45 = 56.4 - 4.8% = 2.7 ad or 3 AD. 3 AD = 30 gold. 136 Gold + 30 gold = 164 Gold Total (Note you can get extra movement speed items, so ill bump the gold to 194 gold beens youll probably have 6 bonus ad with all the movement speed boosts from other items). |Conditioning = 594 gold| |Eyeball Collector = 630 gold| |Celerity = 194 gold|

  • Overgrowth. Every 8 minions you gain .2% max health. Average Cs a game = 200-250 (in my elo). 225 / 8 = 28.125 or 28. Average health of a tank/bruiser is about 3k. 28 x .2 = 5.6% bonus max health. 3000 - 5.6% = 168 bonus health. 168 health = 448 gold. OverGrowth = 448 gold. Ravenous Hunter = 15% heal. Deaths Dance = 3500 gold. 80 ad = 2800 gold in longswords. 10% cooldown = 225 gold. Ignores 30% of damage for a few seconds, I dont know how to calculate this so ill just say 100 gold. 2800 + 225 + 100 = 3,125 Gold. 3500 - 3,125 gold = 375 gold. Ravenous Hunter = 375 Gold. Scorch = 60 magic damage. Calculating this would mean 60 magic damage = 60 ap = about 1305 gold in Amplifying Tome Items, which sounds way off but I wouldnt know what else to do for it, so screw it. |OverGrowth = 448 gold| |Ravenous Hunter = 375 gold| |Scorch = 1305 Gold (wut)|

Adding the total of all these together and you get:

Resolve = 6,112 Gold Domination = 3,871 Gold Sorcery = 3,923

Even if my math was off by a bit, this still shows just how much better Resolve is than the other two trees. I didn't have time to do Precision or Inspiration, but if this post is popular enough then I might add those two. Resolve either needs some nerfs, or the other trees needs some fixing. I was able to get to Diamond 4 playing Resolve on Jayce in the mid lane. Its so crazy how much of an advantage you have using this rune page.

Edit: If you're gonna dislike at least tell me what the flaws are in this lol.

41 Comments

Bonipherus4/30/2018, 12:21:48 AM24 votes

you're comparing late game stats for resolve's scaling runes and comparing them to runes focused around early game. not really a fair comparison at all.

resolve/inspiration level 1 gives 30 hp. only 15 when you don't take inspiration second btw. these values are 80.1 and 40.05 gold worth of stats respectively. now compare that to the 390 gold sorcery/domination gave you at level 1.

grasp- early game is where this rune get's proc'd the most since you're always in combat. legit 12-15 of those 20 grasp procs are gonna be in laning phase. level 1 a grasp proc for a 600 health champion will deal 24 damage and heal for 12. level 1 comet deals about 35 base damage with starting ap and doesn't require you to be in combat for 4 seconds. grasp's proc rate drops dramatically as the game progresses because melee champions don't really skirmish and back off anymore; the game goes into teamfights where the fights are over in just a few seconds and grasp may not even get used. this keystone is simply better on paper.

bone plating- one ranged attack and 3 seconds later then this keystone's effect is completely nullified for for 45 seconds. it has no scaling values other than levels and it's very nature described above makes it only good in all-ins. early game it's worth max 160 gold if all 3 instances of damage are reduced.

you brought up overgrowth so lets compare it to overheal. overheal will give 10 plus an additional 10 percent max hp shield when healed over the health cap. this is over 200 health for a level 18 marksman. lucian will have 201 extra health at level 18 with this while building no hp items compared to a tank or bruiser who you said will have 168 health after reaching 3k health and probably about 30 minutes to stack it up. the tank invested in time and items and received less health than overheal gave lucian who only had to auto a minion a couple times/his support pressed a button while hoovering him with their cursor.

edit- spelling

BestPudgeNA4/30/2018, 12:25:20 AM10 votes

Gathering Storm gives 72AD at 50 mins which is 2520gold worth of longswords. Obviously this is broken

/sarcasm off

You can't ignore pre-18 level of the game. You don't simple start at level 18 or 50 mins so using these full scaled numbers vs numbers that are just a flat bonus like for example the tree bonuses, doing that just isn't fair or honest. Resolve tree used to have a flat bonus of 130 HP which is actually a little worse of a flat bonus in terms of gold then the other trees. Now it probable avgs out to be around 150-180 over the course of an avg length game Which is a little better but not twice as good as ur making it out to be

I'm sorry but you evaluation of Grasp is just straight up dumb and is the primary source of the disparity. You don't start the game with anywhere near 3k HP. More importantly you can only proc grasp once every 5 seconds. 120dmg Every 5 seconds is no were near 4K+ gold worth of longswords at 2.5 max attack speed it's 9.6 AD worth of longswords so not even a full 350 gold. At 1.0 attack speed it's roughly item 1037 worth of AD.

Subdue4/30/2018, 12:09:11 AM9 votes

I'm not going to go through the whole thing, but your analysis makes some significant errors. For example, you estimate the value of of Grasp based on 3000 HP, which means you are taking into account items and scaling. However, you estimate Electrocute based on only its based value. You also highlight the significance of Electrocute's higher cool down while not even mentioning Grasp's higher ramp up time.

GG Thanks For LP4/29/2018, 11:16:56 PM7 votes

Lol. I was wondering why literally everyone including adcs were taking this page whether its their 2nd tree or first

zZ ThE BrAiN Zz4/29/2018, 11:21:00 PM7 votes

Yeah I believe it. I always hated the domination tree. It just feels like it only has 2 good things in it (Sudden impact and the keystones). Everything else in that tree is just bad or doesnt really provide much. The Zombie wards/Poro should be inspiration tree. And the bounty hunter runes arent that good either. I rarely even notice the healing i get from Ravenous Hunter.

AlienPrimate4/29/2018, 11:26:40 PM6 votes

Moral of the story: item 1028 is way over priced and the cost should be cut down to 300 as well as everything it builds into being reduced in cost.

Boltonator4/29/2018, 11:20:16 PM5 votes

From -1 to +8 in the blink of an eye [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

SuperCommander4/29/2018, 11:55:52 PM5 votes

Note that if you take away the keystones from your comparison you end up with these values:

Resolve = 1,442 Gold Domination = 1,305 Gold Sorcery = 1,923

We can see that the above comparision is mostly about the keystones. Thus we may conclude that Grasp is incredibly superior to Aery and Electrocute.

Handin Out Naps4/29/2018, 11:40:25 PM4 votes

You can thank all the people on the boards crying about defensive runes not being good enough.

Falque4/29/2018, 11:23:58 PM4 votes

Add dorans Shield to Resolve and you dont even gotta worry about dying in lane lol. This game is just catering too much toward newer players.

FrostlySpark4/30/2018, 1:30:51 AM2 votes

Why did they put all the defensive options in the resolve tree?

k wìx4/29/2018, 11:41:11 PM2 votes

While I absolutely concede that I think you are right, and Resolve seems really, really good right now, I just wanted to play devil's advocate for a minute:

When dealing with Defensive statistics, the relative value a champion gets out of it is dependant upon base stats and kits.

As an example, because of abilities, a champion like Rammus or Leona gets far more value out of health then a champion like Ashe.

Or to put it another way, Tanks are the ones getting the full value out of the resolve tree, there is significantly less incentive for a champion like Zilean to take it.

Sire Hippington4/30/2018, 11:56:36 AM2 votes

Pretty horrible comparisions, you can't really tag a goldvalue on runes unless they are just offering raw stats, and there is a MASSIVE differnce between stats @ 18 and raw stats from lvl 1 on.

12 ad at lvl 1 are about 20% increased ad at lvl 1, 270hp at lvl 18 are ~12% increased base hp at 18 on most of it's users.

Omituinen4/30/2018, 6:04:34 AM1 votes

"Edit: If you're gonna dislike at least tell me what the flaws are in this lol."

Well in several cases you're full-on making up "gold values" for things that don't have gold values. One Grasp AA doing extra damage doesn't mean that you actually have 4200g worth of AD, but you're pretending that it does and thus concluding "OMG RESOLVE OP!"

T4underbolt4/30/2018, 8:53:15 AM1 votes

Well kids and noobs have to get a way to win the game for free and never die so it's obvious the tank tree is the most powerful and can be picked also as secondary by everyone without losing much.

TeCoolMage4/30/2018, 10:29:55 AM1 votes

gold efficiency is simply a guideline for comparisons to similar items (luden's to GLP, frozen heart to thornmail, fiendish codex to aether wisp), and they're calculated arbitrarily around base items. All this says is that ruby crystal is pretty damn cheap, if anything.

Let's make amp tome / longswords double the gold, so that way the offensive trees are worth twice as much now.

A fairer comparison would be how much damage resolve blocks vs. how much damage domination/sorcery gives. And even then it's really hard to compare them because tanking x damage and dealing x damage are two completely different things, as well as how AP/AD are linear/quadratic in scaling while tankiness is closer to logarithmic.

TempName748144/30/2018, 11:16:11 PM1 votes

did you copy-paste "platting" or do you actually think that's how it's spelled

Snowman Arc4/30/2018, 12:20:29 PM1 votes

  • Base stats: you only take into consideration the level 18 point. What about level 1 and early game in general? The value there is almost non-existent, and it's also the most important part of the game.

  • Grasp comparison. Again, you only comment on 3k HP = late game. Early in the game, this isn't as high. Also, the damage output by each keystone has different meaning based on the champion. Zed wouldn't care about doing so much more damage. He only cares about doing enough damage in a short window. You can have 10k damage by Grasp and w/e bonus health and healing from it, but a Zed can have just 4k from Electrocute and still be more important, because that 4k damage were used to kill someone, where yours probably didn't matter at all. You completely ignore context.

  • Bone plating: Again, late game. it blocks 20-50 damage. Early game, it only blocks 20, and most of the time, you don't get value out of it, because people stop attacking, wait for it to go on CD, and then attack you back. At the same time, most champions who can make use of sudden impact, can do so frequently to proc it after its available again. Manaflow band is currently weak, but with the amount of mana that people get lately, the mana regen is decent enough. There are times where people have 3k mana, and sit on 1k (for example after using Seraph's shield, or proccing Muramana). The mana refund there is much bigger, and again you only compared it at level 18.

  • Condition. Again, AFTER 10 MINUTES. By the time you reach that point, you are probably losing because you don't have a rune. Meanwhile, I will abuse my extra MS early to get in some autos while you can't and destroy you in lane, or I'll set up more vision on enemy camps as a jungler and attempt to steal camps or kill the enemy jungler. Much bigger reward.

Anyway, I read the entire post, and in all of it, you only seem to account for full build level 18 situations, completely ignoring level 1, early game and mid game. There are runes that are very strong early and there are others that scale late. Therefore, there isn't really any unfairness. It's just early spike vs late game.

Rexxiee4/30/2018, 9:17:58 PM1 votes

Yep they tried to "nerf" resolve but they made it even more broken.

VICHEL CHAOS4/30/2018, 12:48:43 AM1 votes

I appreciate the effort you took, but some of the assumptions are too strong, don't take intended users into account, ignore versatility or simply are not compared fairly.

Let me start with your electrocute/grasp comparison as an example to illustrate my point. You divide the damage by 3 because of the cooldown, but you are not taking into account that precisely that damage may (and in many case is) the determining factor in an assassin killing off an adc. In that case, where is the lost gold in damage by the adc? Burst damage in general is more valuable gold wise than equivalent damage if it is distributed along a period of time.

Oh, and although aery rocks lower damage numbers, her ease of proccing and higher versatility (offensive/defensive/poking tool) are not taken into account enough. You add much less value to aery in your calculations than it deserves in my opinion. Aery is also much less conditional than grasp in that you need 4 seconds in combat and a melee (most cases) basic attack to proc it while Aery is available directly on spells/attacks on allies/enemies.

Another example of this not being accurate is your sudden impact and bone plating comparison. You are comparing the gold value of both directly without taking the drawbacks fairly. Your argument for this is that even though bone plating has a much higher cooldown, sudden impact has a condition to proc. In reality this does not work like this, because sudden impact is only going to be taken on champions that can reliably proc it, hence the drawback is in the vast majority of its users negated in most part (hence they can be assumed to have it available in almost every situation) while every user of bone plating still has no way to deal with the drawbck of the rune being its long cooldown.

On ocnditioning, eyeball and overgrowth, you are taking their endgame values. You are forgetting that with conditioning you are forfeiting a rune for the majority of the laning phase. Stats at the beginning of the game are worth much more than at the end of the game.

Finally, you are translating the damage to longswords to calculate its worth. Try taking a 200 stacks dark harvest procced 3 times in a fight which is very easy to achieve late game and you would easily reach the conclusion that domination is overpowered as all hell (idk lets say that is 600 damage in longswords which equals a metric ton of gold, 21k if my math is right for 60 longswords).

I am not arguing on wether resolve is strong or not, just that your comparisons are very unfair and completely inaccurate.