Serious Thoughts About Assassins and Balance

Shouju·2/3/2015, 4:39:10 AM·16 votes·9,170 views

Why Riot (Unintentionally) Hates Assassins

TL;DR – They are near impossible to balance around if you stick true to their core concept. Their concept isn't actually fun and lacks reactive counterplay, something that is a core component to the game.

First off, I want to say that I think the balance team is fundamentally good at their jobs. I think they do a great job almost all of the time in creating fun gameplay, and delivering statistical balance over all. If there are any Riot staff that I offend, I'm sorry, this is still just my opinion based on what I have observed about the game.

So, balance.  Who do you balance for, what do you balance around, how do you balance strong kits, new mechanics, old mechanics, etc.  Well, the truth of it is, you do it by seeing things that people hate, or can't respond to, and changing them.  And I'm not going to bring up things like Lee Sin's issues or how simply being a bruiser is comparably worse than being a ranged champ.  Those topics are debatable, and while I do have many ideas about them, this isn't about that.  This is about the assassin class in particular, and what it means to balance it in terms of the game.
Now I'm a fan of assassins, I love the style of them both to play as and against.  But I like every class in the game, and I think this game is by far one of the most fun to play and the most balanced among MOBAs and PVP in any sort of RPG style.  I think it does the best job of creating a good viewer experience – it has little to no backwards or unreadable mechanics.  And while I've thought of things that would be fun to have in the game, those things really aren't needed and are sort of just artificial depth.  
However assassins are a class that the idea of balance that is currently being adhered to does not allow for.  Riot, I get you want clarity and counterplay, and a good experience for everyone in a match, but you can't combine that with the idea of an assassin and try to change them the way you are now.  It just ends up with gutted champions that don't see a lot of play.  Talon, as a prime example; he was OP, then he was gone, then he came back for a week, and now he's gone again.  I can't remember the post, but I remember there being talk about wanting to change or rework Talon's “blow up a target or do nothing” playstyle.  
What I want to ask first is, why?  Why would you want to change the way an assassin like that works?  The answer: “It's not fun to play against.”  Well, you're right.  It's not.  Playing against someone who can remove your health bar is not fun – regardless of how flashy it is.  And it's not always fun to play, seeing that your target isn't alone, or that they are playing just a little too cautious for you to jump on them.  That's the counterplay to an assassin, don't get caught.

I've got an example.  I asked my sister and my mother the same question, and got the same answer from both.  Neither of them are gamers, and neither of them would think of it in terms of a game.
Say you've got 5 guys on a team, one with a shield, one with a club, one with a bow and arrows, one with medical supplies, and one with a knife.  Assume all of them know what to do with their items, of course.  What's the role of each?

Shield: to block enemies, and prevent allies from taking damage. Club: to try and break through and deal a lot of sustained damage to enemies when he gets close. Bow: to deal damage from a distance, staying safe by being out of harm's way. Medical: to restore or support teammates by restoring damage dealt to them. Knife: to kill enemies once he gets close. See where this is going? Obviously not every team is going to be like this, but those roles are pretty much how it works. Tanks soak damage and peel for those behind them; bruisers smack whatever they can if they can get in the fight; Archers use their range advantage to stay safe from whatever they can and try to pick off targets they can aim at; Medics heal their team once they do take damage, as long as they can stay safe themselves. But the guy with the knife, he doesn't charge your tank and try to dig it through the shield. He doesn't – always – jump into the middle of the fight and try to slash everyone's guts, that'd be dangerous, there's a crazy guy with a club in there.
So what does he do? He waits. He sits somewhere close but out of sight, and he waits for them to be isolated or step just a little too far from their safe point. Then he uses his knife, and he takes out the enemy archer or medic, and he gets out. Or, he stalks one of them through the woods and kills them while they're alone. If he's smart, that's what he does. How else would he get through fights against bigger better weapons with a knife? The enemy knows that you are dangerous, and they don't want you getting to their high priority targets.
That's how an assassin works. There's no counterplay once they get to you, the counterplay is making sure they don't get to you. You can't heal a knife in the throat, and a shield only blocks so much. And an archer isn't worth as much when a target surprises you in melee range – archers are not meant to defend themselves from knives, neither are medics. And if you had someone tossing molotovs instead of a guy with a club, he's also not equipped to deal with the assassin.

This applies to any assassin.  This is why I think Talon's playstyle is one of the best for an assassin.  Same with Kha'Zix and Shaco.  They don't attempt to brute force their way into a fight – and if they do they don't expect to survive every time, they really never should expect to in that situation.  Assassins are supposed to kill a target before they can respond or defend themselves.  They are this way because if they don't do that, they fail, and likely die themselves.  That's how they work. 
Talon hops on one target, tosses out a bunch of blades, stabs the target a few times, and runs away if he can.  Shaco pops out, sneaks up behind someone, stabs, tosses knives, slashes, and then runs away if he can.  Kha''Zix waits for someone to be just a little too far from their allies, hops on them, slashes them, runs away.  If they don't kill or mortally wound their target, they failed.  If they get greedy, or caught, they die.  




So why does Riot hate them so much, without knowing (or publicly acknowledging) it?  Because it's a not balanced.  Not to say the champions are broken, but the actual concept of a proper assassin is not balanced.  There is no active counterplay, you simply don't let yourself get caught.  Ward, group, don't overextend.  Every game, you accept what your role is and what you're playing against.  Accept that you're not going to beat a bruiser in a duel, accept that you may die before you ever reach their marksman, accept that their tank will take a lot more effort and time to kill, accept that your damage may be healed up, accept that your minions might disappear before they help you do anything, and accept that you will be destroyed if you're available to be assassinated.  
Does that sound all that fun to be on the losing side of?  No, and it never does.  Losing sucks.  Not being able to stop something feels terrible.  But to keep the actual idea of what an assassin does alive, it would have to be more broken than it is now.  
I truly believe that the designers of the game and of every champion like the idea of flashy high damage dealers that use a lot of cool mechanics.  The game isn't made in such a way that assassins will ever be “healthy” to have in it.  Not with the current idea of health or balance or counterplay.  You're not working together to fight baron in this game, you're working to defeat another team of people.  The guy with the shield can't AOE taunt the whole other team for the entire fight, and it's not a case of a boss and his adds.  You don't just give the archer and the assassin the same dps but give the assassin some cool utility and burst instead of safe reliable shots.  These can happen, yes, but there's other things in the game that can be used for or against an enemy team.  More strategic and tactical advantages than just numbers to raise.

In my opinion, assassins should be either incredibly hard to play, or incredibly high risk.  By this I mean, either it's really hard to use the champion in order to kill your target, or if you screw up (miss your spell, whatever) you're useless for a good while.   But that's only IF assassins are ever going to be true to their concept.

56 Comments

RiotGhostcrawler2/3/2015, 8:47:10 PM11 votes

We've been talking about the assassin role a lot lately, as you can probably imagine as part of the whole DFG discussion.

While counterplay is a League design value, assassins probably deliver on it less than some roles, and to some extent that's okay. I say that because playing an assassin is often about getting the drop on someone and taking them out before they can respond. That lack of response can feel like lack of counterplay, but we're okay with it as long as assassins still have some weaknesses. (The alternative is that we conclude we can't really support an assassin play style at all, which we think would be unfortunate). High mobility and burst damage are pretty important for assassins so they can accomplish what they are supposed to, but that means assassins have to give up something elsewhere, such as CC and of course tankiness.

We're also talking a lot about which champions fit in the different roles. Some of the champs you guys mention in this thread play more like mages (lots of control) or fighters (more tankiness than the typical assassin). Historically as we developed champions, we were pretty fast and loose about which role a champ filled -- often it had more to do with theme or even art as much as it did the function the champ filled on the map, especially in team fights. We're now in the process of trying to be more explicit about what makes a champ an assassin vs a mage or whatever. This might mean reclassifying some of the more ambiguous characters, or at least understanding when they're breaking rules that they are in fact breaking rules and may have to pay for that somewhere else in their kit.

I mention this because it should provide some context for the kinds of changes you're going to see us make, and also because it's a chance for you guys to talk about what you perceive as the strengths, weaknesses and roles of the various champion types.

Done252/3/2015, 4:48:28 AM6 votes

That's because people believe that Assassins = Lots of burst damage when it's actually Assassins = Lots of mobility.

Is Veigar an Assasin? His R can easily one shot another mage come late game. No he isn't. He's far too slow and easy to initiate on. He's a Carry. Carries do lots of damage.

Assassins use their mobility to strike at vulnerable key target, thus amplifying what power they have.

We have a Shaco in a bush. Does he fight the Fighter Trundle or Tank Rammus running in his direction? No. He Decives over them and leaves behind a Jack in the Box + a Hallucination to keep them busy while he sneak up behind then shanks the ever living crap out of the Marksman Caitlyn.

Last week we had a lot of people complaining that Assassin Ahri was dead because they removed DFG + the Amp on her E. An Amp that wasn't even originally on her kit.

In exchange, she got a speed boost on her Q that makes her nearly uncatchable and allowed her to perfectly position for her E WITHOUT needing her R. Which is how an Assassin should play, with speed and agility preferred over raw damage or durability.

TehNACHO2/3/2015, 4:43:38 AM4 votes

{quoted}

Kha'Zix [...] [doesn't] attempt to brute force [his] way into a fight – and if [he does he shouldn't] expect to survive every time, [he] really never should expect to in that situation.

Actually, one of Kha'Zix's small scale reworks was targeted specifically at this. Fighter Tank Kha'Zix was both tanky enough to initiate all sorts of brute force methods into a fight, and still had the raw damage to kill squishies anyway.

Which was funny because everyone at the time was convinced this was a nerf to Kha'Zix's assassination play style.

RiotGhostcrawler2/6/2015, 2:27:53 AM3 votes

What are assassins best at? 1v1ing a squishy target, of course! This means that, for a squishy opponent in the assassin's lane, their only hope is to be massively ahead of the assassin at all points, or have an ally help them out whenever the assassin tries to go in; otherwise, the assassin will have the advantage; not unbeatable, mind, but I'd bet on the Zed against the Brand anytime.

Assassins also have a role in later team fights.... or at least they should. Your point that the qualities that make them good there might make them too good during the laning phase is a fair one.

BluePolarizer2/3/2015, 5:01:18 AM3 votes

Not getting caught, being tanky, warding and having map awareness are legitimate counterplays. They're strategic, team-based counterplays, not tactical and individual counterplays, but counterplays nonetheless. League is a team game.

majorashash2/3/2015, 5:40:35 AM3 votes

This is why I love Katarina (my favorite specifically), she almost NEVER picks up a defensive item (when I play her), which makes her explode very easily with the help of well timed CC (if she's even in view long enough) or any damage really. The glass cannon aspect of Katarina more-so than some other assassins makes her more interesting for me because she dies so easily that its feels more rewarding to outplay your enemy (even though resets lol). LeBlanc, Fizz, Rengar, and Talon are in a similar boat.

But still, by moreso than other champions I mean examples like Nocturne, Shaco, Kha, and Evelynn who almost ALWAYS pick up at least 2 defensive items or invest more heavily in defensive stats than the other assassins. Now, the reason why I voted "some do, others not so much" is because of those "assassins" that invest more in defensive stats in favor of survivability and a better tendency to dish out sustained damage (nocturne AAs a lot, so does AD shaco, Evelynn Q your finger off, and kha relies upon a few qs and autos in some cases). Kat, Fizz, Leblanc, Talon, and Zed are more bursty, so they really feeeeeel like assassins to me.

I think it would be cool to see the "more defensive" assassins I listed to get some kit tweaks to either validate their assassin identity or differentiate from it. Not necessarily buffs but maybe mechanic changes to make it easier to identify their role in fights, because they can't just shunpo/cutthroat etc. in and kill someone before their target sees someones there, they are almost hybrids between bruisers and assassins. I am by no means good at this game just my 2 cents from playing assassins mostly haha.

Zahz2/3/2015, 10:51:11 PM1 votes

I would say the proper counterplay to assassins is Ward positioning. one ward in the right place can completely shut down any attempt for the assassin to gt into positiong. Problem is soooo many players are completley unwilling to deviate from a build path by buying wards and exist solely on a trinket. Vision wins games

Decrit2/3/2015, 11:59:42 PM1 votes

Hey man! well fleshed out post! i wanted to share my idea of assassin with you since it' s a matter i tough a lot too. I' m a bit of hurry so let' s talk.

I don' t want to talk immediately about utility, but rather damage patters. Riot says that Zed is an healthy assassin mostly for this aspect, i believe, because their burst pattern is divided in 2 sides:

  • A part of burst, where the assassins kicks hard and strong, either at the engagement or immediately after/via damage over time/ disengagement, uncounterable or not, is damage that is queued in and that can dealt almost immediately ( an example is every talon' s skill, ulti included).

-A part of aftermath, where the champion finished his damage burst but has a window of commitment for extra damage that he can risk through before disengaging. The commitment is done under special effects or conditions that makes the assassin in a favorable position, like avoidance or extra damage.

Now we know reality is a bit different, so let me put it in a more abstract way: let' s put we have assassin X, that is able to deal 50% hp damage to a squishy with busts and 50% damage through aftermath. This X flanks, roams, does the possible to have a good engagement spot and has generical utilities that allows him to strike. What can he do?

If he meets an enemy carry, for example, that by definition deal more damage the more the fight endures, he is able to dispatch them in duel because he can strike hard and kill them before the can ramp up damage ( remember, we are talking abstractly and we don' t consider outplays and kit utility disposition). With different classes may happen differently, up to not be able to kill them or get killed instead! If said carry is in a teamfight and he engages him he deals the burst, that i placed at 50%, but in order to kill him he has to commit itself for that additional 50%, a time where he risks so much to get crushed by the other enemies that is almost impracticable. Then how does our X kill the enemy squishy? With the aid of team mates: by poking, by engaging, by peeling they can weaken up or disperse enemy fronts so much that our assassin, when he engages, deals the burst of damage and if he does not kill has a reduced commitment time to finish off the target. For example the allied Xerath shreds 25% hp of the carry and when X engages he has only to commit for 25%. Will that be enough to kill the target and survive? Probably yes, probably not, but for sure he will risk far and far less more than targeting one with full life. This does not only make then interactive in fight, but also gives them a determined dueling power.

This is how i would like to see the Assassins, damage wise. Zed has a burst component, but his passive and the extra damage of the ulti consists of a commitment part where the assassin can be countered, keeping in mind that the assassin has an upper hand on the victim that might be decisive or not, rather being a close-combat flanking mages with AD: the AD increases auto-attack damage, and while they are not carries they shoud make use for that. In this context i really imagine to see at work a reworked critical strike, since i believe it does so much makes part of an assassin.

The numbers are purely indicative, but that' s how i would like to see more assassins; the pattern might be a little different, with different utilities or approaches, but the core concept around this.

Mirage Night2/5/2015, 7:33:29 AM1 votes

I think what really needs to be done is to identify strengths and weakness of the three types of assassins that can be generated in this moba

Melee Assassin Mage Assassin Range Assassin

Each should have varying degrees of mobility/Damage Rotations/Single Traget and AoE capabilities/CC

A few things that have bugged me about many of the assassins in the game

  1. Large number have decent to good wave clearing ability, which sort of contradicts one of the things assassin should suffer in. Weak early game.
  2. Some have a high amount amount AoE damage, which differs from the traditional form of an assassin.
  3. Some lack out windows of vulnerability. Once an assassin spends a full rotation in a successful of failed attempt, they should have a clear and open window to vulnerability.
  4. Some have extremely high CC potential to mix in with their other capabilities, which again does not seem to follow the traditional assassin

Now obviously, there should varying methods of doing this, but this is some of the issues I see.

Mirage Night2/5/2015, 7:56:56 AM1 votes

If you take Zed an Example for my above statement

Things I like

  1. His Ult is SINGLE TARGET. And though it is somewhat point and click, it does have a delay and does require him to have some follow up to it in order it to be usefull.
  2. He has low CC potential. He really only have a soft CC.
  3. He has the type of mobility that makes an assassin identifiable.

Things that I do not like

  1. His Q passes through minions and is not block able, giving him decent poke and helps his wave clear. It also his AoE potential a bit higher then it should
  2. His Energy regeneration feels too high, for when he completes his rotation it feels like he isnt very vulnerable.
  3. His reposition abilities last a bit longer then I think they should. even if you drop the duration of his shadows by .5 seconds, it would open up opportunities when is positions poorly.
Jungle Lux God2/6/2015, 1:23:17 AM1 votes

I feel like an assassin jumping onto a target and straight up killing them is fine if the assassin telegraphs it properly. That is the biggest problem with a lot of assassins, as many of them just immediately jump onto a target and blow them up, and the champ you just blew up had no time to react.

That is the reason why Riot considers Zed a healthy assassin: when he goes to kill you, he tells you he's going to kill you by activating his ultimate, and you at least have the chance to react to this by better repositioning your self to mitigate the damage he deals or increase the risk that Zed has to take to kill you, and possibly get the kill on Zed to punish him for his risk. After 5.2, Fizz is largely the same way, except he doesn't have many of the BS mechanics that Zed has, because he telegraphs his kill combo with his shark.

Done252/3/2015, 5:42:28 AM1 votes

Friggen forum ate my post! :/ Damn these boards suck.

Gimme a moment to fix my previous post.

EDIT: What the hell, the damned thing keeps screwing with my post!?

Edit2: Oh FFS. There is something weird with when you use < and - next to each other that causes it to wipe out everything past it. Damned annoying.