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I finally understand Thunderlords, but want help.

redniwediS·3/11/2016, 10:53:41 AM·1 votes·439 views

I just had a massive losing streak with my friends, so this is part venting and part constructive conversation, so take it all with a grain of salt.

I've seen the complaints on here, and heard them from the people i play with, but up until today I never really understood the problem people have with Thunderlords. It does damage, but as a top lane Garen main I always viewed Grasp as superior. They all obviously have their uses, but Thunderlords just always struck me as something that was just meh, even though I see it used all the freaking time.

But today I got to play against a Pantheon. I was already on tilt, which really didn't help, but I fed like a mother fucker. There was literally nothing I could do to hurt him. The few times I started doing damage to him he would just ignite me and burst me down anyway.

Sure, there's counter play. There's counter picking. There's all sorts of things you as a team can do to counter stuff like this, but this game is mostly played as individuals. The only time things in this game bother me is when they give me a feeling of helplessness. The feeling that, no matter what I do, I will always fall short. That is what Thunderlords on Pantheon made me feel.

It feels like complete nonsense, and I absolutely hate it. It's not even that there was a skill difference. For the entire lane phase I kept up with him in farm, even though he had full access to the minions whenever he wanted, even under my turret. It was just that damn cheese. Even when he had four kills on me I would heavily damage him when he went in on me. I was always falling just short of killing him, even with his lead.

As I said I was already on tilt, so that amplified the frustration, but honestly... I wouldn't be sad if a bug came along that "accidentally" removed Thunderlords, Pantheon, or both from the game permanently. Anything that can make me feel that bad is something I wouldn't be opposed to never seeing again.

Alright!

Now that that's over with what's some stuff you guys do to help combat this? I won't bother linking the game I played, because as I said I was already super tilted, and I made a gamble build wise that did not really pay off, but what are some tricks you guys have learned when facing an oppressive lane like the Thunderlords Pantheon example?

Anything will do; picks, build paths, roaming strategies, anything really. I plan on going over every mistake I made once I've fully calmed myself down in the hopes I can avoid them in the future. I'll get back to my usual untilted self soon enough, but any sort of tips or advice you guys can give me on top of that would be very helpful.

8 Comments

Duke Anax3/11/2016, 11:29:47 AM2 votes

I think the biggest problems was that you rushed Black Cleaver. That actually limited your damage and is the reason you always fell just short of beating him.

While Phage and Caulfield are both a good start for Garen, you shouldn't get the Cleaver untill you actually face significant Armor or Teamfights. Usually you want to build Caufield into Youmuu's instead and get a Cleaver later.

Then you made the mistake of getting Armor. Garen already has high defense values as well as a reduction active, so getting more health would have been more effective. It also better against the magic damage of Thunderlords.

Steraks gage would have been the ideal choice here as it also counters the Burst build Pantheon was running.

tl,dr: in such a matchup start Caufield, try to build Youmuu's. If you are in trouble get Sterak's. Save black Clevaer for Armor and Teamfights.

Critmaster Garen3/11/2016, 1:36:54 PM2 votes

playing passive and health stacking are your best options. this is always the most efficient route to go in case the enemy is dealing mixed damage. especially in case of a bursty champion like pantheon.

its painful early on, but rather recall and lose cs than dieing to him, and lose cs anyways. get tp of course to keep you in lane.

youll eventually outscale him if he doesnt get too much of a lead.

one of the most important things you need to learn in solo lanes is how to cut your losses when youre losing. if youre falling just a little bit behind its usually not so bad. especially in case of thise matchup where youll eventually outscale pantheon.

if you play your cards right very early on and manage your w well, you can actually make the pantheon run out of mana before he pokes you down too much.

Anraton3/11/2016, 11:15:43 AM1 votes

well had this matchup myself and got beaten .. so what i am writing here is more theory which I did after that game ...

garen has a passiv granting him sustain ih he didn't get hit for a certain time. is w passiv is has a late game scaling .. his e has a level scaling .... garen has weaknesses ....

and pantheon is able to hit these weak spots very well .. he can Spear shot you to shut down your passiv, he can block up to 2 hits of your damage (passive normal up, proc, use his stun)

i think the problem is not about thunderlords .. its about the matchup at all .... If you don't know how exactly too handle pantheon ... he is just countering you hard ....

so if you want to stand a chance you have to look about where the weak spots of panteon are .. (as he got nerved on is e last patch .. he seemed tobe a bit to strong as side note ...)

so .. lets stats about the biggest difference .. pantheon uses mana, garen doesn't ... at lvl 1 it would take about 8 q or e to deplete his mana (ignoring mp reg) (which would be about 560 damage from 8, or 700 from e if you take full damage)

his q has a prety low cd with 4 seconds .. his e starts with 10 sconds reducing down to 6 over levels ...

don't think you can wait for his skills to be on cd ... either you try to outdamage him or you try to outsustain him .... i think both can be done but its not easy ... best trys I can think of is dorans shield + pot (shield blocks damage from single target spells (q)) or cloth + 4x pot ... not sure if either works ...

EDIT: sorry 4 that wall of text.