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Real Talk: Wit's End & Why You Should Take It

MasterofSFL··5 votes·5,282 views

I see this almost every day, a Jungler, a Top, an AutoAttacker champion who's Melee, who wants to be tanky, who wants to deal damage, who wants to be the beefiest bastard he can be...And they take item 3153.

And I have to ask myself...Why? Why do you all do this to yourselves and your team? Why do you choose this incredibly useless item (For a Bruiser, for a Squishy Destroyer) over Wit's End? It's baffling, it's incredibly mind numbing. It's so stupid I can barely contain myself evertime I see it. Even when matched against a team FULL OF SQUISHIES I still see you all choose this item over Wit's End.

Why?

item 3091 gives Every Stat an AutoAttacking Brusier wants: Damage, Resistance, Attack Speed, Pen. Most AA Bruisers (Which Include: Shyvana Volibear Udyr Warwick) Deal some form of Alternative Magic Damage (Be it in the Form of On-Hit or AoE), which Wit's End complements greatly. If you take Gold into Consideration, the Item gives you 100% Gold efficiency (2,600g) at full stacks, which is not including it's passive Reduction or Damage that gives Roughly a BF sword in Damage plus Pen that all Equals out to Roughly 2.3k in additional Gold, making this item almost a 2 for 1 buy. Then, if you go further, it releases an entire Slot for other Items, a slot that BotRK would force you to make up with higher costing Items to make up for it's lack of Resistant Stats.

And best of all Wit's End Doesn't force you to commit to AD centered items. It gives you Pen for your already Magic Dealing abilities, It deals magic damage itself and utilizes all it's stats neatly, while BotRK is essentially useless without additional AD items. It has no Pen, Countered by Armor, it's LF is pretty nonexistent at 10% and only 25 AD (And most champions not reaching past 100 at lvl18).

Champions Such as DrMundo Jax Nocturne Irelia all can effectively utilize Wit's End as an alternative MR and Damage Item, all of them being AA centered, all of them being Melee, all of them being Bruisers if needed. Yet, Generic Builds are abound for 3 of those 4 that incorporate BotRK simply because of it's Passive On-hit, AS stat.

To put it simple, Wit's End is Superior to BotRK on most Melee's who aren't Carries (Ala MasterYi Fiora). I implore you all, whenever you are doing any Build that is not Glass, to just take a minute and think: Can I get more Mileage out of Wit's End over BotRK? Chances are the answer is a resounding YES.

28 Comments

JustMyBassCannon11 votes

First reason; Blade of the Ruined King has sustain, and Wit's End does not. Simply put, it's offense and defense at the same time, and bruisers scale with offense and defense about equally. While WIt's End also does this, it's specialized for magic defense, not overall.

Second reason; BotRK has much higher damage output. Between having some AD for scaling ratios and dealing 8% of current HP (which beats Wit's End's proc if the target has more than 500 HP), it's pretty much always dealing more damage, even with the AS difference (+10% AS increases attack rate by <0.1 attacks per second on anyone).

Third reason; The active grants a lot of sticking power plus burst damage. 10% of HP, and it steals MS from the target, making it impossible for most targets to outrun you.

I agree that Wit's End is a nice item. But BotRK before Wit's End is totally justifiable.

MasterofSFL2 votes

Sustain seems to be the only argument I can see anyone making a case for. But my response is: How are you dying that bad?

As a bruiser, how are you at 5+ getting reamed so hard in Jungle that your health is always under 1/2? How does Trailblazer not Fix this? How does the Jungle Passive and the constant Mana/Health heals in jungle not make up for the damage? Are you using almost no AS or AD runes in your jungle?

BotRK may have higher output, but it lacks actual defensive stats for when you actually need them. Unless you add to that AD or LF, the defensive aspect of BotRK is completely out preformed by Wits End for two reasons:

  1. You can not use your active when Stunned. 2)Mr is Passive, LF requires AAs.

Lastly, you can buy into stick through Mallet or Gauntlet. Both provide tank stats, both provide additional Damage.

And buying Both is absurd in almost any situation.

JustMyBassCannon3 votes

Lifesteal is, indirectly, an increase to your HP. With every basic attack, a percentage of the physical damage you deal is healed. Unless you're at full HP, this effectively translates to an increase in HP during combat.

It's not about jungle sustain, it's about combat sustain. You're not going to be fighting a jungle monster at the same time that you fight an enemy champion--unless you're being invaded, and even then, the regen from jungle items doesn't help there--so the sustain you get from Machete-based items is not going to be useful at all times. Hell, it's only going to actually be useful in the early-game, when the low bonus sustain lets you jungle for longer; later on, you clear camps at least twice as fast, and the only real sustain you can get out of the jungle without Lifesteal is Ranger's Trailblazer smite (which means you lose the utility of Skirmisher's or Stalker's).

Now, if we just assume an average of 200 damage per attack (at 2000 HP, the bonus proc alone is worth +160, so this is definitely a low number), each basic attack is +20 HP. Your attack speed is going to be high enough that you're dealing at least one attack per second, between innate bonus AS and BotRK's +40%, so that's about 100 HP per 5 seconds in combat. Note: This is a very low estimate of the sustain granted by BotRK, all assuming they don't use any champion abilities to change anything.

Let's not forget the "Steal 10% of target champions max HP" part of BotRK's active.

Wit's End is a later grab if your champion synergizes with it, because it grants less offensive and defensive power than alternative options. BotRK is definitely, noticeably more offensive, but it also has defensive strength that you overlook.

It's not that people are dying badly and need sustain. It's that it has very appealing offensive power, and the sustain scales directly with offensive power, making for strong self-synergy that Wit's End lacks.

GloriousKaiser4 votes

Sustain seems to be the only argument I can see anyone making a case for. But my response is: How are you dying that bad?

He just stated TWO more reasons. It's not about dying either. It's about the attrition of resources. Mana, HP, cooldowns, etc. You have to manage all these in lane, and across the map. Having sustain ensures you can last longer. Lasting longer means a chance at beating out enemies in that category. Sustain is a powerful mechanic, it's power doubles on manaless champs like Vladimir. But I digress this is about item 3153 right? Jax scales better with it. He can output more damage evenly, and the other stats and actives culminate to an overall better item. item 3091 is good but it's just not a feasible end-game item. It doesn't scale, let alone fit in with all those other endgame items that have one of two things, abnormally high stats or extreme efficiency.

As a bruiser, how are you at 5+ getting reamed so hard in Jungle that your health is always under 1/2? How does Trailblazer not Fix this? How does the Jungle Passive and the constant Mana/Health heals in jungle not make up for the damage? Are you using almost no AS or AD runes in your jungle?

Trailblazer is inferior to the CC that Stalker provides. That's one thing. Secondly, WAT? Nobody is talking about getting reamed in jungle cause they didn't take Trailblazer.

BotRK may have higher output, but it lacks actual defensive stats for when you actually need them. Unless you add to that AD or LF, the defensive aspect of BotRK is completely out preformed by Wits End for two reasons:

  1. You can not use your active when Stunned. 2)Mr is Passive, LF requires AAs.

You're right. Absolutely so. But now that I think about it, this comparison is a bit unfair.

item 3153 is an offensive item that offers for defensive stats when neccesary. item 3091 is a defensive item that requires offensive play for full effect.

And I think you're HEAVILY underestimating the power of sustain in and out of combat. It's powerful in it's own right. Aside from potions, natural regen, and healers, it's a purchaseable, reliable way to regain HP. Realistically, you will take damage. Now surviving it is one thing, but sustaining it is another. Mundo is a great baiter who builds tanky and on top of that, can regain all his lost HP, even while being focused.

Also, NEVER underestimate % HP damage, it stacks up FAST.

Lastly, you can buy into stick through Mallet or Gauntlet. Both provide tank stats, both provide additional Damage. And buying Both is absurd in almost any situation.

You say this yet I ask this. Why hasn't this been done then? Chances are if you've thought of it, it's been thought of before. So why don't more people purchase a item 3022 oritem 3025 ?

BluePolarizer7 votes

A few things:

BoRK scales, wits end doesn't. BoRK has a better build path because it includes Cutlass. BoRK gives jungle sustain for junglers. Most of all, BoRK has an active slow.

BoRK also doesn't require Arpen to work well, it just works better with Arpen. Most champs that take BoRK don't take Arpen (since they scale off of attack speed mostly and have existing on-hits) and most champs that take Arpen (AD carries) don't take BoRK. Even against a target at 500 HP, BoRK deals 65 damage (25 AD + 40 from active). At 500 HP, most players at the time you take BoRK are considered almost dead. Even with 100 armor, BoRK deals 32.5 damage at 500 HP, which is almost as good as Wits End until you forget that most champs at mid-game have 1500-2500 HP.

MasterofSFL1 votes
  1. Scaling is more important to Carry Type Champions than Bruisers.
  2. Jungler Sustain is Nice, But Bruisers get through camps just fine.
  3. BotRK against Tanky Champions is Useless without AD/Pen backing it.
  4. Armor is predominately the Resistance used by all, MR is hard to Itemize (And doesn't scale with level).
  5. Wit's End has more AS than Blade.
  6. (Jungler) Devourer and Wit's End complement Eachother and allow a lot of damage with Tank Stats.

And that's just Damage.

When you take into consideration that all the aforementioned Champions all Want to be tanky, all of them are front line, all of them need to survive the initial burst (which in many cases is Magic Damage), Wit's End comes out on top. It allows you to be both Fairly tanky and get good damage returns and immediately go for Armor/Health without sacrificing survivability. In a Vacuum, when you take just Damage as the sole determining factor in which is better, BotRK is the winner. But as an Item choice, For bruisers who need AS and Damage, it is far better in most cases.

Z Statistic2 votes

You're acting as if you only get 1 slot for 1 item. Most bruisers who get BoRK either only use BoRK and then build straight tank or build BoRK on top of hybrid items like TF or Maw. Maw is actually a better item for the most part. The kind of champion who would want Witt's End over Maw would be: AA based absolutely no AD ratios except on AA has some sort of sustain Ranged/heavy cc/slow

That last bit seems odd, but it's true. The reason BoRK is so damn useful is the sticking power. Randuin's has a similar function but it's not nearly as good for dueling.

So we're looking for a champion that primarily blows stuff up through AA, has either no ratios or very poor AP ratios on offensive spells, can either heal or shield tons of damage innately, and is ranged or has innate sticking power already.

Lulu

And that's it. Kayle & Thresh are good contenders, but Kayle still has a decent AD ratio on Q and Thresh still likes the burst from E.

MasterofSFL1 votes

Sticking Power can be bought, Namely through Frozen Mallet and Iceborn (Both of which provide additional Tank stats and damage). Mallet provides AD and Iceborn Cooldown (for more abilities).

Again, BotRK is pricey if you have No AD (LF) or Range, it's stickiness is only an asset if you have no way of getting to a champions and Every Single One of those Champions, aside from Mundo, Has some sort of jump. Frozen and Ice Born both can give you more than enough Stick for almost any situation.

Z Statistic1 votes

Both Mallet and Iceborn require you to be in melee to actually use them and thus require you use your gapcloser. That means both of them let you stay on a target but not get to them. BoRK has a decent range and thus let's you stay on a target AND get to them. Plus, you really do want a pure offensive item on a lot of bruisers. Building straight defense on someone that's supposed to deal damage is a bad idea in pretty much every scenario. You need some offensive item. BoRK is extremely efficient in terms of damage output. BT will only ever give 80 AD and a shield that scales per level. BoRK gives damage and burst that naturally grows as the game goes on. Yeah carries are the ones that worry about inter-item scaling but Bruisers look for an extremely efficient dps item because that's the only item they will buy for damage. Some like TF, some like BC, but most love BoRK for that natural scaling.

MAZZ1M01 votes

Consider then, because I do this a lot. What's more likely to let you win a trade?

item 3022 + item 3153 or item 3022 + item 3091

Here's a hint, it's usually not the latter. Mallet and BotRK are like chocolate and peanut butter in my book. I usually rush them on Shyv. I usually rip off some good kills. Wit's End wouldn't let me do that in most situations -not enough dps.

Now you could argue Wit's End would be better if you already have a damage item like Hydra, but if you don't it won't help you much offensively. Remember, atk spd is only useful if you can already do damage (or if you're Kalista. :3 ) The mag dmg on Wit's end also doesn't compare to the % dmg on BotRK. Wit's End is usually best as a win-more item when you already have a reliable offensive and defensive item.

Jungle Lux God2 votes

There is a lot that Blade of the Ruined King gives bruisers that they need that Wit's End doesn't give.

For one thing, Blade of the Ruined King provides sticking power that Wit's End doesn't have. There is no CC or movement speed buffs on Wit's End, but there is on BotRK's active, so if you want to stick to your targets better BotRK is the better item. And all of the champions you listed would really like to stick to targets better.

Another thing is that BotRK scales better. Since Blade of the Ruined King has % current health damage and Wit's End deals a flat amount of damage Blade of the Ruined King will scale better into the late game because of that extra damage, as everyone is getting extra health, and everyone is going to start getting some kind of magic resistance in some form.

Blade of the Ruined King's sustain provides comparable survivability to Wit's End. Because BotRK has the lifesteal and Wit's End has so much of its defensive value dependent on its stacking magic resistance and its base magic resistance, the defensive values on both items are very similar. This also doesn't include the fact that Wit's End has no defensive value against a team comp with low magic damage, but Blade has defensive value against a heavy AP comp.

One last thing: Blade of the Ruined King doesn't have a bad build path. For the record, having a Recurve Bow in your recipe on live basically means that the item you are building out of it needs to be really good on the champ you are playing as or else you just shelved 900 gold that basically does nothing. For the record, the last time we actually would regularly see a Recurve Bow item was when Runaan's Hurricane made Kalista absolutely broken, and she doesn't buy it now because she won't have enough damage, and there are no champs that are strong enough with Wit's End for Recurve Bow to not be a bad pickup for later. This problem won't be so bad if the Recurve Bow changes on the PBE go through (builds out of 2 daggers and deals 10 physical damage on hit), but until then Wit's End won't be usable.

Laraso1 votes

Tank Meta

XxxLumberJackxxX1 votes

I was with you until you said Mundo should buy it. Then I laughed. BC no

MasterofSFL1 votes

Let me Guess, you play Full Health, nothing else, Mundo who Runs around with his ulti, Dah?

Bears Dont Care1 votes

10% sustain really...does not mean anything. By the time you afford it, you really do't care for it within the jungle, and against other champions the sustain means nothing if the fight isn't extended. Furthermore, botrk has a higher output when you do not factor armor. When you factor in armor mitigation, wit's end will pull ahead until the target hits a certain amount of HP.

Keep in mind armor will scale higher than MR does typically, and squishy targets like an ADC do not gain MR per level. It is also dependant on the champion.

Master Yi can get either really. Warwick will rush wit's end. Volibear will probably go for botrk. So on and so forth.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

{quoted}

10% sustain really...does not mean anything. By the time you afford it, you really do't care for it within the jungle, and against other champions the sustain means nothing if the fight isn't extended.

UNIQUE Active: Drains target champion, dealing 10% of the target's maximum health in physical damage (min. 100) and healing you for the damage dealt. Additionally you steal 25% of their movement speed for 3 seconds - 90 second cooldown. (450 range)

It's like it was designed to extend fights on its own.

10% of physical damage as bonus HP is actually quite significant. Between base AD going over 100 and the %HP proc dealing over 100 damage on its own, you're going to actually see healing numbers show up in combat if you're not dueling Rammus.

Furthermore, botrk has a higher output when you do not factor armor. When you factor in armor mitigation, wit's end will pull ahead until the target hits a certain amount of HP.

Keep in mind armor will scale higher than MR does typically, and squishy targets like an ADC do not gain MR per level. It is also dependant on the champion.

Wit's End deals 42 damage on-hit with the proc. BotRK has +25 AD, +8% current HP damage on hit; to match 42 damage, the target needs 213 current HP.

To double up another +42 damage, +525 HP to the target.

Likewise, for every 525 HP step, in order for Wit's End to match the damage with its proc, the target's MR needs to be another fractional step below their Armor. 738 HP? Target needs to have half as much MR as Armor. 1263 HP? Target needs to have 1:3 MR to Armor. 1788 HP? Their MR needs to be one quarter of their Armor.

And, unless your team isn't dealing any significant magic damage (and, thus, would not want Wit's End anyway), why would they build a lot of Armor and no MR?

Slayer15571 votes

Your analysis is good, but you also need to consider that Wits End amplifies your own magic damage. I know the last Shyvana game I played, I had almost exactly even split between Physical and Magic damage to champions. And that was with Cinderhulk and Bork. If I had Wits end it could have been even more towards magic.

You are right in that it depends.

Venowolf1 votes

Warwick is the best user of Wit's end...

Rebonack1 votes

Everyone here seems to be forgetting that Wit's amps magic damage against your target for your whole team.

Twenty five MR shred is a pretty big deal against a soft target.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Oh, no, I don't forget that. I use Wit's End on Shyvana regularly, and I actually don't use BotRK on her. It's good with whom it synergizes.

But there are many justifiable reasons to take BotRK first/instead of Wit's End. Dealing %HP damage softens up tanks just as much as--if not more than--shredding 25 of their MR. The sustain is more effective in dealing with more damage types, as MR only affects magic damage, and the proc is significantly more powerful and scales through the game.

MAZZ1M01 votes

If the target is squishy, you don't need Wit's end to kill them. Wit's End is dps, not burst. Just let someone else burst 'em and move on. Don't waste an item for a squishy champ that'll get deleted in seconds by your adc/assassin/mage.

Slayer15571 votes

I want to take it, but I'm having a hard time justifying it over Bork on Shyvana . And I really can't afford to take two damage items (Bork + Wits End). If I can figure out how to do it, I would really love to, though. Hopefully someone can shed some light on this.

MAZZ1M01 votes

BotRK is almost always superior. I honestly can't think of a situation where you wouldn't screw your build up later on Shyv. Wit's End would help if you're getting wrecked by an AP champ in laning phase, but Spirit Visage + BotRK > Wit's End and... Maw of Malmortius I guess? (Best MR dmg combo I think of with WE.) You'll fall off eventually as Wit's End doesn't scale and you'll sacrifice a tank item for dmg later which will hurt you in teamfights unless you're already wrecking people's s%$^. A Hydra would be good on that WE and MoM build, but that only works if you're not hurtin' too bad in teamfights. The adc will gut you. The problem you'd have is that WE will throw off your defensive/offensive balance. That's not good unless you're far enough ahead for it not to matter. You could probabaly balance it out at full-build, but then BotRK + SV or BV would still be superior for a balanced anti-MR+dmg set.

InSingedWeTrust1 votes

Damn, Witt's got rekt in this thread.

Delioth1 votes

It fits nicely into my Kayle's build.

item 3085 item 3115 item 3091 item 3071 item 3153 And then either item 3006 or a deathcap or something. item 3089 's nice.

Shred all of the defenses!

Daedalus8711 votes

Wit's End: +50% AS +30 MR +42 Magic Damage on hit up to 25 MR shred and gain

BotRK: +40% AS +10% Life steal +25 AD +8% current health on hit 10% maximum health active + slow/boost

The 10% AS is negligible. The 30 MR will be ignored by pretty much every assassin. The sustain on BotRK is rather nice. The slow is also pretty freaking nice.

As far as damage goes, lets assume the enemy has 3000 health 200 armor and 100 MR (seems like reasonable bruiser stats). The average health from 3000 to 0 is 1500. 8% of 1500 is 120. Then ad in the 25 damage and it boosts your attack damage to 145 damage, I'm going to call it 150 for nice numbers. Then comes in the 200 armor for a 66% damage reduction for 50 damage. So BotRK makes your average AA do 50 more damage, while healing you for 5 and that's not even touching on the slow. Wit's End reduces their MR to 75 for a 44% damage reduction. Again for nice numbers, I'm going to call this a 40% reduction. So wit's end does approximately 24 damage on hit. And that's not considering the fact that a lot of champs buying BotRK one or the other do have AD scaling.

So again, BotRK does roughly twice the damage of Wit's End and it steals MS, while providing sustain. Really, you have to be a sustained magic dealer champion against a sustained magic damage team in order for Wit's End to be better than BotRK.

MAZZ1M01 votes

item 3153 And I have to ask myself...Why? Why do you all do this to yourselves and your team? Why do you choose this incredibly useless item?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/09c78ab6d39ca12c344d185f370710dd/tumblr_mx3r72ouy81sm30sso1_400.gif

I'll give you Wit's End is useful when you're not fighting tanks. But if you don't understand why BotRK is a core item on tanky fighters (especially Shyvana) I think you're missing something. (Honestly, I've always wanted to try it on full-build Braum for sh$%^ and giggles.)

If you build all-tank and have one slot for damage, BotRK is the way to go because regardless of whatever your piss-poor damage is, it automatically chunks 8% of their current health per hit -not counting the active. Put that on Shyv who has a Q and E that %$^& this thing and you have an initial burst of around 25% of their max health. Don't even get me on the Q passive and the fact that lifesteal is great for tanks. It is the quitessential Shyv item. You don't not take this if you understand her abilities. I think Jax could make due with Wit's End in some cases, but, like Shyv, he's not entirely tank. Bruisers don't build tanky to tank they build tanky to trade. They're usually item-reliant. BotRK will give you decent damage regardless of your attack and it works well with several kits. Wit's End is niche pick. You use it when you need MR and the enemies are squishy or someone else can melt tanks. BotRK consistently keeps you relevant with tanky builds. Wit's End only does it certain games owing to everyone's builds and champ picks.

Wit's End is certainly good, I'll grant that, but BotRK is in no way useless. It's one of the best items in the game.

On Fiora and Yi though, Maw of Malmortius and Mercurial Scimitar are far superior for AD+MR. You can stack a Phantom Dancer on them later for more total damage. They're made to kill before people can kill them, not trade in barfights like Shyv or Mundo. BotRK is a noob trap on Fi. Can't speak for Yi though. I don't use him.

Dies to Wolves1 votes

not saying wits end is bad, but if you can't stick to your target as a melee, you're screwed

bork gives sticking power, wits end doesn't

also, bork gives sustain, which depending on who you're playing, is a godsend (for example, shyv is tanky but doesn't have in-built sustain. Bork gives her more sticking power AND sustain besides the damage)

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