People complain about damage but rarely build more than one or two defensive items.

HàrrowR·8/20/2019, 3:33:58 AM·15 votes·7,797 views

This is something that i've noticed in League, people are frustrated about being deleted but still keep to their "recommended" or online guide builds no matter what. Guess what, you can still do damage without going full damage, especially in a meta where there aren't even god damn tanks.

I see ADCs going item 3006 item 3031 item 3094 item 3087 item 3508 item 3036 Assassins going item 3158 item 3147 item 3142 item 3812 item 3036 item 3814 Mages item 3020 item 3285 item 3089 item 3135 item 3157 item 3165

Full damage runes, ignites, mage supports, assassins junglers etc. Now i know what you're going to say, but i need to build damage cause defensive items are useless, cause defensive runes are useless, cause i'm the main carry for my team!

But IMHO this isn't really the case, you don't need to build full tank to increase your surviveability, there are plenty of items in the game for every class that give defensive stats, you just choose not to take them, you want to one shot people, you want to melt people in seconds and then you get tilted when someone does it to you.

You're not the only carry in the team, no, not even you my fellow ADC mains, everyone deals fucktones of damage, even better, games are decided much more by objectives, early dominance and team play than who's got the best "theoretical" damage output. No damage in the world will save you from face checking a brush with 5 people in it and losing the game off it. Hell take a look at the LEC, Garen Bot winning, Soraka top with smite winning, Tristana mid winning, and you're here so afraid to upset the meta that you can't buy an item that isn't in your recommended tab.

You can't copy pro builds cause pros are just that, professional players, playing a highly coordinated game with other professional players, with professional supports and still if they feel they need more defense they'll buy it, can't remember the team but they had a Varus with item 3047 , how many of you would buy tabi on an AA heavy champ like Varus even if you're up against 4 ADs, i'd say less than 1%.

Can't speak for all classes so i'll stick to what i know, ADCs. You have an item that literally gives you a shield equal to 30% hp, item 3046 yet you'll trade it for the extra item 3087 . You'll buy 5 damage items and then instead of getting a item 3139 or item 3072 to literally heal for 200 a hit, while having either bonus mr and a cleanse or 300 extra HP shield,you choose to buy another pure damage item instead.

Literally just build this item 3006 item 3046 item 3031 item 3094 item 3026 item 3072 ,bam, 20% lifesteal, 900hp shield (PD+BT) 45 armor and a damn revive if you get deleted or caught. And you won't even feel the difference in the damage, hell your Brand support will out damage you anyway by pressing R.

Mages, throw in an extra item 3102 in there, hell build item 3040 instead of item 3285 , get a item 3151 instead of a item 3135 if the enemy isn't building any MR.

Pick a real damn support, not just Lux Brand Zyra Pyke Pick a tanky jungler Sejuani Nunu Zac Rammus Pick a tanky top laner instead of Yasuo Akali Tryndamere Jayce

Pick up a damn summoner 21 instead of an summoner 14 , pick some defensive runes, buy more defensive items, god knows you never do.

Damage being high is a product of Riot power creeping the game as much as it is the product of the players mentality, where more damage = better. If a pro team can win the game with smite Soraka top, then don't tell me that you need to pick a mage support or an assassin jungler to win and that without 6 damage items,full damage runes and ignite you're surely going to lose cause you're "literally" dealing 0 damage.

136 Comments

The thigh guy8/20/2019, 4:16:14 AM25 votes

Tank items do not work.

RiotBazerka8/20/2019, 3:40:23 AM18 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

GigglesO8/20/2019, 5:37:54 AM12 votes

I would like to disagree.

I love to play me some: item 3065 item 3068 item 3075 item 3143 item 3047 item 3193 games

but you still die quickly...

And its not worth a damn because you don't deal damage.

SEKAI8/20/2019, 4:41:31 AM11 votes

The best defence and sustain items are usually tagged with heavy offence now so that the damage dealers can abuse them, and yes, those get built.

item 3139 item 3026 item 3812 item 3157 item 3102 item 3814 item 3146 item 3156 item 3053 item 3040 These are the best defence items in the game. Notice the pattern?

The full defence items are almost all flat out garbage that's why no one build them, only full tanks are stuck with them because that's the only thing they can remotely use (and proceed to get blown up by everyone due to the sheer insanity of the current state of damage, the utter uselessness of resistance, bunker penetration, and the utter useless tree that is the Resolve tree that is only comparable to another useless tree ie Sorcery; and get out-sustained by even damage dealers while they're at it. Why do you think no one wants to play a tank champ? No, I'm not referring to bruiser; tanks).

Srbonator8/20/2019, 3:38:16 AM10 votes

I get matched against full AD team, they buy item 3071 item 3147 item 3814 item 3142 item 3036 I get matched against full ap team(which is very rare) so lets say i an enemy carry is ap, oh oops they buy item 3135 . Defensive items/spells are useless, how can barrier help me aganist Pyke, or hell even ryze who can point and click me for cool 900 damage. EDIT: I forgot about the healing part item 3033 item 3165

Jamaree8/20/2019, 3:38:10 AM10 votes

Shhh, no logic here, damage is simply too high man, everyone knows that while only having a ninja tabi, I should be able to survive the full burst of a fed assassin

Caretaker Jack8/20/2019, 4:13:51 AM10 votes

Well, thats because nobody really plays tanks... Games usually decided after 2 itms anyways, so ppl just hop on the dmg train.

Teh Song8/20/2019, 5:40:18 AM9 votes

B---h please, people build 6 defense items with full defensive runes and complain about damage.

TheSingularity8/20/2019, 7:48:34 AM5 votes

Did a test a few months back, not much has changed so is still relevent. A zed with triple leth items, cleaver and lord dominiks can shred a full build armor/HP tank (so not 6 thornmails/hearts/warmogs. 6 different items). Down to around 70 armor, during which they can deal upwards of 3500 dm. That, is rediculous for a champion to deal 75% of a counters HP, who supposedly counters them by easily tanking their dmg. Armor drops off too fast (deminishing returns after 100), or armor shred is too strong. One or the other needs to be changed so tanks can do their jobs, and the champions they're meant to but fuck have to alter their builds/playstyles to deal with them

Fear the Kayn8/20/2019, 5:40:45 AM5 votes

Bring back Atmas I can promise you top laners will start building defensive again.

Z3SIeeper8/20/2019, 10:37:53 AM5 votes

As a Juggernaut player, it feels awful to build Spirit Visage and still have a non-fed LB 100-0 you, or build Ninja Tabi and Steraks and still get 100-0’d by non-fed Zed ult or die in 2s to a midgame ADC.

So i can only imagine how much worse it is as a squishier champ like an ADC. Thus I can see why they opt to not build defensive items cuz they won’t make a difference. Stopwatch, Zhonya and GA are the only exceptions cuz they deny all damage or revive after being oneshot.

People don’t build offense over defense cuz they’re 2IQ, they build it cuz the only way to fight the damage meta is to burst down the enemies first.

Darkdemon6538/20/2019, 10:24:32 AM4 votes

{quoted}

People complain about damage but rarely build more than one or two defensive items

You have the cause and effect reversed.

MiracleMorg948/20/2019, 12:45:43 PM4 votes

Well people stick to full damage builds because DEFENSE is literal shit right now and won't do much to save you, unlike the past seasons before Runes Reforged came in.

THAT's why.

needHymn8/20/2019, 1:14:43 PM4 votes

Tank items don't clear the waves. Tank items don't clear the jungle camps. Tank items don't take down their turrets. Tank items don't burst down the Baron or Elder. See, it's not just about fighting champions. Tank items can put you behind because of your inability to kill other things, other than champions, fast enough. So the player who builds the damage items simply out farms you, and out performs you in other ways, other than just fights. If it was really just about fights then yea, tank items might help. But it's more than that.

Nevrankroaton8/20/2019, 7:06:57 AM3 votes

What is amazing also is that you see proplayer do that, accordingly building defensive items when needed and also try to adjust the need of their powerspike along with it.

But just for the funny part, Lux rise as a support was when she was a TRUE support with using aftershock to have a lot of survivability with her Q and her shield being so strong lux player would start with it at lvl 1 and trade like raging hound. They would build full support item because her shield was so OP that you didn't need damage at all.

What amaze me is how delisuoned people are about the strength of building resistance. We just had a big talk on the garen main subreddit about his ult being true damage but loosing base damage/ratio. And I did the math and proved that even with the ratio and base damage nerf, it being true damage instead of magic damage made up for it (except in the villain case) because even a tiny amount of MR reduced the damage so highly (also Garen doesn't build MR penetration).

Anyway. Resistance aren't dumb, health isn't dumb, but at the same time it is sometime important that you get your powerspike to be able to do properly your job before paying for defensive item.

But it is the board here, nobody will listen to you, they rather rage at things, say yasuo killed their dog and that lux actually kidnapped xerath.

5050BS8/20/2019, 8:05:53 PM3 votes

I can do all Def items and still get melted.

Dotty LB8/20/2019, 11:04:17 AM3 votes

Theres kinda a twofold problem with building defensive. The first problem is average game time. This means on average you have enough time to around 3 full items(not counting boots) at best on average. If you build defensively the enemy ends up snowballing off the rest of your team who are not building defensively. So in a lot of situations its more effective to play defensively, look for picks, and try to carry teamfights.

Second problem is that defensive items are simply not very effective anymore. Back in old seasons defensive items did tend to outscale offensive items till someone could get a heavy pen item(like vod staff for example) but now they can shred through youe defenses without it and if you ever get behind, defensive items feel like even more of a joke.

TekkenPlayer8/20/2019, 12:17:27 PM2 votes

The best way to tank is to do damage until they die

Galiö8/20/2019, 12:44:08 PM2 votes

Defense items are more expensive and dont synergize with kits.

Average game ends around level 14 and 3 items.

If you build 2 defensive items you dint offer your team anything and will still likely get blown up.

Defensive itemization is awful right now, which is part of the high damage issue.

I dont complain that damage is outrageous, because that's the direction the game has been going for 2.5 years.

For the people that do have an issue with it, they have a point, there isnt much to be done against high damage other than hit first/outburst.

5050BS8/20/2019, 10:47:56 PM2 votes

Best Def is kill the first. More damage = kill them first.

Riot has made the game Burst so building Def is stupid unless you are THE tank and then all you are there for is MEAT shield and CC

Zullar8/28/2019, 8:02:08 PM1 votes

Defensive items don't help enough and aren't worth building. Ever!

A tanky jungler? Nunu Zac Rammus ? The pro's just pickJarvanIV Qiyana and burst people instead.

In all seriousness though I think part of the issue is the way damage & defensive compounds mathematically. for ADC: Attack Speed x Damage x Crit Chance x Crit Multiplier x Armor Pen all compound. for Tankyness: Health x Armor/MR compound

So giving up 1 item for an ADC you lose a HUGE amount of DPS for only a tiny amount of tankyness. This tends to push damage dealers to full damage.

If the math was different where your 1st tanky item gave you the most effective health... and then each incremental item decreased in value... and offensive items had diminishing returns in the same way... then you'd see players more often try and find a middle ground with a mix of offensive and defensive items.