Boards›Gameplay

Bard is What CertainlyT's Champions Should Strive to Be

Prospector Pete·7/27/2018, 11:16:25 AM·34 votes·11,079 views

Everyone already knows that CertainlyT's champions always introduce some interesting new mechanic that while fun for the player, isn't exactly interactive or fun for anyone else in the game. The thing is, champions don't need to be aggravating to play against in order to introduce new mechanics to the game. Take Bard for example. Bard is an incredibly unique champion that introduces a new and interesting mechanic with each and every one of his abilities. However, unlike champions like Yasuo or Zoe, Bard is fun to play against for the enemy as well. Bard has clear counterplay in many of his abilities and he also doesn't get a safety net - if he screws up it can actually cost him or his team greatly.

Just my thoughts on the subject. I've always like Bard due to how he's unique and fun to play against at the same time, something that unfortunately CertainlyT's champions haven't achieved.

52 Comments

rayzo7/27/2018, 4:49:02 PM18 votes

Bard is CertainlyNotT

Chembaron Yamada7/27/2018, 5:39:52 PM12 votes

Agreed, he is a good example. Like his tunnels, which let everyone in his team get through walls, which is a new mechanic. But enemies can use the tunnel, too, so the new mechanic doesn't just benefit him, but the enemy team (even if obviously less than his own team).

Meanwhile CertainlyT, if he adds a new mechanic, then it is absolutely onesided for the advantage of the new champion. Like Zoe, who can use your summoner spells against yourself, so not just is she using summoner spells more frequently than anyone else, she actually weakens the enemy use of summoners because she can turn them against them.

LeftyRaydy7/27/2018, 5:39:12 PM9 votes

I wouldn't say Bard is FUN to play against as he can be quite annoying, but I believe he is balanced and a health champion.

Aptest7/27/2018, 5:32:58 PM6 votes

i think a problem with CT's champions is, that with respect to counterplay, some of them have special quirks and exemptions built into their kit, specifically designed to negate "designed" counterplay or user error. special note goes to yasuo's "out of turret range" ult exemption, and zoe's "you can't cleanse this" cc.

TheDevice7/28/2018, 2:36:29 AM4 votes

So, Zyra Mordekaiser Kalista Thresh Darius are unfun to play against. All of them. I seeeee.

Mordepool7/27/2018, 4:22:21 PM3 votes

Bards bullshit stun needs a look at. Nothing better than having a spell shield up get hit and get stunned anyway since fuck logic

RookPusher7/27/2018, 4:52:58 PM3 votes

Bard is a great champ, but he's more of a worked-around champ than a well-built one. He had to have heavy damage buffs, his W inadvertly works like a minor speed boost in the late game and an assist pick-up more than a heal, and his E is fun but needs to have 2 charge stacks if they want to make bard competitive late game.

HIs R is exciting, and his passive is fun, but I also think he could stand to get a minor overhaul. Not change anything, but adjust it.

Paroe7/28/2018, 4:44:38 AM3 votes

@thread Bard is a boring one trick pony who falls off extremely hard and doesnt have a very strong presence unless theyre building like a mid-lane sona or a weird onhit top laner. Bard is not what a non-support champion should strive to be, especially considering that bard was trash (as in actual hot garbage) for much of his formative time and didnt become a decent generalist pick until he had been buffed a ton.

CTs champions are, above all else, fun. Theyre fun to play, theyre fun to see played, and theyre interesting on a base level that champions like leona, bard, velkoz, xerath, and urgot arent. The problem so many people have isnt with CTs champions inherently, putting aside the dank maymay hate. Their problem is with the numbers these champions have. Which is not a designer realm of control. Zoes problem is in her cooldowns and her range-scaling AoE skillshot. Both of them are numbers.

Yasuos problem is in his tornado, which zones you off by sheer existing, and his windwall which is broken code-wise because of riots sloppy spaghetti coding. (Fun fact - years ago riots head programmer stated that theres no such thing as bad coding practices)

IllusionLord3337/27/2018, 5:26:42 PM2 votes

Whenever I play Bard I feel satisfied for some reason. Maybe it is quirky personality or his fun kit (portal shenanigans are the best). Though it is also probably because when I play Bard I feel as if I am not abusing the system either. No absurd damage or mechanics needed. He is pretty balanced for the most part and really fun to play. In conclusion, a well designed champion!

Modl Ryden l7/28/2018, 2:11:55 PM2 votes

Oh yeah, because being able to proc electocute in lane every 40 seconds off a basic attack is so interactive.

NekoniClaws7/28/2018, 12:23:32 AM1 votes

You've not heard my premades complaining about Bard.

"That stun is STUPID! That hitbox is stupid!" "WHY DID THIS BARD JUST SOLOKILL ME? WHY DOES BARD HAVE ELECTROCUTE? RIOT? HELLO???" "No! Please don't play Bard! Bard is trolling!!!"

I mean, I like Bard. I don't find him SUPER useful as a pick in soloQ (your E isn't really considered) and he doesn't have any great matchups that make him a counterpick so he's a little meh for me to play, too. Comparatively I'll have way more fun games on Thresh, probably because all of his spells are interactive- and using Bard tunnels gets a little old. Landing a 'THIS BARD!!' ulti tho... especially with a team on voicecoms, makes up a good part for it tho.

AirKingNeo7/27/2018, 5:56:04 PM1 votes

Bard is a champion with no identity.

Edge of Daybreak7/27/2018, 3:29:06 PM1 votes

If all people cared about was counterplay we wouldn't have many complaints at all. Bard doesn't do much by himself due to his support nature and only having 2 spells that can even effect enemies involuntarily. His heal is cool but really there isn't much to do when he sets them under his tower or just point and clicks it. When bard hits me with anything I don't go oh fuck I am dead I think damn I hope bards team isn't there to actually make this matter. Where as most of the champions we complain about from CertainlyT are made to be relevant on their own except for thresh and even them most of the big hitters that those champions have come with the same counterplay bard has dodge the skillshot. Even in yasuo's case if his ally lets you ult him it's almost the same as bard utling you and his ally killing you off of it. Another champion had to help you do something which adds a nice teamplay element. Off the top of my head Kalista, Yasuo, Zoe, and thresh all have elements that your teammates can or in kalista's case are forced to contribute to your champion.

Counterplay isn't the problem it's their power in general when you actually know what you are doing as outside of their auto attacks you can dodge most of what they do the numbers on their kits are the balance teams problem though not the champ design teams.

OHminus7/28/2018, 3:25:33 AM1 votes

Bard is a great champion.

I just don't like his ability to proc electrocute with a couple of autos. His early damage is insane.

Crescent Dusk7/28/2018, 3:40:38 AM1 votes

Bard is a nosy obnoxious ho who comes harass my mid lane 24/7, so he can go burn in hell.

Rhyvin7/28/2018, 4:16:25 AM1 votes

Bard isnt a certainlyT designed champ

Biff the Bard7/28/2018, 1:08:27 PM1 votes

Holy Mother of Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick! I was thinking the very same at work today!!

I was so pissed by Zed's low/none counterplay and Yasuo's One-Way Bullshit. Bard is totally fine in all aspects, for example my ulti hitting ALL people (and not just the enemy while my guys for no apparent reason can still move unlike Yasuo's windwall which can for some reason figure out who his allies are and let their bullets and projectiles through, even from the same side) or my tunnel which also lets the enemy travel - at lower speed though.

My Q flies kinda slow and low in range, but hits two if possible or one if in close area, either slowing OR stunning enemies. Skillshots are rewarded with better positioning. Meep management requires to roam the Rift (and gets me to shit out some wards on the way) My heals are either instant or more efficient if the shrines are charged - however, the enemy can stop that by trampling them.

Bard is my Swiss pocket knife - but everything is a counter in itself.

Glaedr7/28/2018, 1:28:28 PM1 votes

Why does a champion have to be "fun" to play against? How do you even define that? People can say stuff like Yasuo and Zed isn't fun to play against because they let them casually farm evenly to level 6 with no pressure and then proceed to get stomped in lane, but that doesn't mean anything. I can defend Zoe all day saying her design is completely fine since I play champions that punish her heavily, but everybody's always going to have a different experience, so where does the line between "fun" and "unfun" get put at?