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Maokai Rework

LongHair Fox·4/19/2017, 7:04:14 AM·3 votes·1,804 views

So Maokais numbers are finally comming up on the PBE and at least to me there seems to be something weird going on. So let's break it down and hopefully I can get some answers from some of you to solve this.

Passive: Larger heal but a massive 60 seconds cd means you only proc it once every other wave. This might be fine since the heal is roughly doubled before you get large health items due to the flat value, but in aggressive lanes where you trade a lot the 2.5 second reductions in the cd is not going to give it as large an impact. Basically it seems to be about equal in passive lanes and a lot worse in aggressive lanes.

Q: No real changes here except for the "Briefly slowed" note replacing its slow. Mana cost is slightly lower (between 5 and 10 mana lower).

W: Lower mana cost, a lot less damage (target needs between 550 and 1150 health for current w to deal more damage, which they always have since you level this second and likely will continue to), root duration at higher levels lowered by 0.6 seconds and cd increased by 3 seconds at all ranks, and perhaps most importantly the speed of the root is almost slower than normal movespeed giving enemies plenty of time to dash, flash or even recall as it completes and you can do nothing. I have a hard time seeing anything but nerfs here even if you level this first, most champions have above 1150 health at level 9 and the lower mana cost might be nice but not enough to offset higher everything.

E: Seems interesting, it almost always deal more damage to champions but for minions it is a nerf even vs live e with a weaker slow although it lasts twice as long. The bush mechanic is however interesting. The last nerf to his e gutted his waveclear so much that he dropped 5% point and I don't see the bush mechanic making this better as this is another nerf to his waveclear unless there is a way to make the saplings from bushes attack the wave.

R: Seems good, but his current ult is extremely good. Damage wise it does buff him a bit, but I have a hard time seeing this be better in top lane duels anyway. It might be better for mid to lategame but I don't see him getting out of lane with these numbers.

11 Comments

Drago Zankaru4/19/2017, 7:14:46 AM2 votes

well if the current pbe maokai is evidence of anything is that their meaning of quality is utter shit. passive massive nerf to lane maokai, meh change to the dead jungle maokai

Q is meh not much change really other than cast speed

W lost its %hp damage, does less flat and scaling damage than it did before he was giving the %hp in season 4, seems to still be 100 or so range shorter than it was before season 4, and is so fking slow moving that there is no way that anyone is going to get caught out by it, also if he does somehow catch someone if he doesnt have ult his root at max lvl is 1s lower than it was before

E now have low as fuck flat damage and scaling %hp, still no impact damage and at lvl 1 does like 50 hp to fking minions, does double damage if its in a bush....so i will deter those pesky junglers lolol no double of shit damage is still shit.

R is so fking slow that you could literally just fking walk away from it, blink/flash over it, just have team get behind braum/yasou and block one of them and walk past the others only sure fire way to land it would be just after you w onto someone and even then the COMBINED root duration of them would be lower than either of his 2 previous w root durations...

-really salty ex maokai main seasons 2-4

jinxedchef4/19/2017, 1:20:55 PM2 votes

Did they raise his base armor/ MR? Because his ult is what made him a tank, if they take that away he can't really dive and his W is useless. So then he is just a waste of space that just throws saplings.

martincastillo24/19/2017, 6:15:55 PM2 votes

Hey, I have just seen Maokai's rework and i have almost cried. Passive: a huge nerf to lane Maokai, but I can understand it. Q: same effect, slightly different animation, no complaints. W: WTF is that ability? I don't really see why did they have to change the speed. It honestly looks ridiculous. Wish they realise and revert this. But they won't, because every time they change the game they make it more and more noob-appealing. E: got nerfed a couple paches ago, where it lost the landing damage, and this new effect has way too many counterplay. The enemy sees you throwing the sapling into the bush and then he just doesn't go near the bush. Too simple. Again, lane Mao nerfed R: WTF is this ability. You can literally recall before it hits you. It looks like a usless Nami ult.

Honestly, none of the champions chosen needed a rework. Maokai was perfectly balanced, as well as Zac, and Sejuani, I don't see Sejuanis in my games so I can't really tell.

This is destroying the game in my opinion. I remeber when back in s5 the game was perfect. Old assassins, old marksmen, old mages... Think about it Riot Games

DeathBurst4/19/2017, 1:49:42 PM1 votes

hopefully I can get some answers from some of you to solve this.

Well, I'll give it a try.

Passive: Larger heal but a massive 60 seconds cd

CD is probably currently bugged. Even if it isn't, I think you under-estimate the CD refund mechanism. In lanes where you trade a lot, you're probably hit by a lot more spells too. Also, depending on how precisely it's implemented, it could be OP versus DoT spells. Imagine getting a full proc of the passive just because of a Pantheon flurry or a Swain DoT.

W: I have a hard time seeing anything but nerfs here even if you level this first

I definitely agree it's a nerf. But I think the point is to max it last, NOT first. Probably some power taken out of here to be redistributed elsewhere.

E: The last nerf to his e gutted his waveclear so much that he dropped 5% point and I don't see the bush mechanic making this better as this is another nerf to his waveclear unless there is a way to make the saplings from bushes attack the wave.

I agree that the previous nerf was huge, but I do think the bush mechanic will make it better. It's probably possible to draw minions aggro then walk near a bush where you prep'ed a sapling or two.

R

I agree with your assessment and this is the big surprise for me. Given they apparently took power out of the W (which is deserved, I think) and that the previous ult was already super strong even if not satisfying, I expected the ult to be much more awesome. Maybe we're underestimating the damage on saplings, but even if that's the case, Riot said they wanted to reduce Tanks damage, not increase it, so that would be a strange shift in power budget. Another option is that the Passive heal is much much better in late game, but I'm not convinced that took a lot of budget either...