Lissandra w and r nerfs

FluffySoxOfDoom·11/7/2018, 7:46:44 PM·36 votes·12,844 views

Okay so I understand that because giving her a fair amount of new damage in her kit would call for some sort of change to her in her damage stats but it's also unreliable damage she is getting. I dont like the base damage nerfs and the ratios, I feel like it's a bit much. Lissandra is one of my most played champs and I really don't want another passive that will feel useless because enemies can get away so easily from the thralls. Please consider not nerfing her base dmg so harsh on her w or not nerfing the ratios on both r and w. It's so much to give up for what seems to be really avoidable damage..

42 Comments

DarukongSr11/7/2018, 7:53:10 PM23 votes

I don't even play liss and I thought the same thing. Her new passive is going to further screw immobile champs while having nearly no impact on mobile champs at all. Not to mention lowering her basic abilities will cause her to have fewer kills in 1v1s and will be less likely to even make use of her passive, so she will be extremely team reliant. Maybe that's a good thing, maybe not, I'm not sure. On the plus side at least they buffed her Q some by reducing Mana cost

Noor Sakata11/7/2018, 7:51:07 PM15 votes

Her W does damage ?

wildfox9T11/7/2018, 8:15:46 PM9 votes

her ult + W screw any mobile champ

her passive screw any immobile champ

basically now it doesn't matter who you are one part of her kit is going to destroy you it could make her feel too strong when she's strong,but at least she's more easy to balance because it makes her a less situational pick,her identity as "press R one the fed one and win the fight" wasn't fun to play against at all

anyway the damage nerfs arent as big as they look

it's 50 damage when the W is maxed (isn't it the last ability that you max? if yes for the whole early/mid game it's only 10 damage) and 10% AP scalings on her W and R

10% on her R is something but it's not insane,while her W isn't her main damage source so it won't impact her that much,especially when she can spam her Q more (which have an enough low CD to be used multiple times in a combo)

she lost some burst but she's way better in teamfight,considering how oppressive she is against an isolated target/1vs1 it's a fair change,not sure if she's going to be stronger or weaker but personally i like it

Vekkna11/7/2018, 10:55:32 PM6 votes

These nerfs just really don't make sense. I thought she was getting a damage passive specifically because she already has low damage and the worst poke of any ranged AP in the game (outside of lane). Those weaknesses are just as bad or worse, on top of being resource-gated in lane and even easier to bully by the AD mids she's hypothetically intended to counter.

Honestly, it's hard to read these changes as anything other than a push towards top and support. At max level her EWQR will deal 970 + 2.2 AP. For context on how trash that is, Zoe's QERQ - without W or passive - deals 990 + 2.3 AP. Oh, and by level 7 that entire combo's cooldown is shorter than LIss's cooldowns on either E or W, nevermind R.

But yeah, while EWQR is dealing 970 base damage, one passive hit deals another 520 base damage. One passive increases Lissandra's total base damage by nearly 54% and after one hit, the passive is worth a full 35% of her base damage in a team fight. That's the kind of thing that pushed Brand almost completely out of mid lane. If that much of your power budget is spent on base damage and cc, you end up as either a tanky engage support or a toxic top laner. There isn't really a precedent for that not happening, is there?

DerMangoJoghurt11/7/2018, 7:59:34 PM3 votes

The new passive allows for some balancing changes though. If the Frozen Thralls prove to be unreliable, their walk speed or slow aura will hopefully get increased.

NotAPurpleFrog11/9/2018, 1:26:03 AM2 votes

Riot loves kicking downed champions in the gut and then go and buff some random broken shit and gift it with a skin. Only to kick THEM in the gut, spit on them, then pick up the first group of downed champions and buff them. The cycle goes on.

Frozen Diva11/8/2018, 1:03:40 PM2 votes

I've tried it on the PBE. Her W feels so bad now. It's basically only a root, no damage.

Full Brain11/8/2018, 1:39:36 PM2 votes

Just watched a youtube game with the new passive and it is total trash. It takes over a second for it to start moving and then moves slowly and barely goes anywhere before exploding. You would literally have to cc chain someone directly beside it for 3 seconds straight to hit them with it. Any character could run away from it with 0 items in their inventory and wither on them.

Limrick11/8/2018, 4:34:04 AM1 votes

They seem to want you to build tank now based on the absurd base damage the passive has. The longer you live, the more statues you can make, so I guess it makes sense. Still sucks for mage Lissandra.

SanKakU11/8/2018, 10:18:53 AM1 votes

Uh yeah, if they mess with W and R without proper compensation it's going to be another champion ruined by a new passive(hello Galio, Alistar). Veigar just got buffs across the board when he was reworked. I don't understand why they aren't taking that approach with another mage champ.

Jaxusalem11/8/2018, 11:58:28 AM1 votes

lissandra mains crying because of new passive while MonkeyKing doesn't have any

LordGeovanni11/8/2018, 12:24:34 PM1 votes

Liss R has had too much damage for too long idk about her w though. she is just better than every other mage because she is built like a back line squishy mage but plays much closer to the front line making every other mage a safer choice just because every other mage option is better doesnt make lissandra a bad mage or not strong fighting other champions.

Hassohappa11/8/2018, 8:22:00 PM1 votes

Wait... you mean that they wouldn't just add a more useful passive to someone all ready seeing high level play all the time with a great win rate without nerfing some of her other things? Like maybe she was balanced around having a lackluster passive and suddenly adding a better passive to her came at a cost? No...

Full Brain11/7/2018, 10:32:24 PM1 votes

Sounds like they are walking down the path to turning her into a really mediocre support. This has Morde written all over it where they start adding abilities that don't make sense for the lane the character is played in and then suddenly decide they don't want you in that lane so here come the nerfs and now you have nowhere you are really viable.

The Iceborn11/8/2018, 4:51:48 PM1 votes

I think they went a little crazy on the W nerfs especially... I mean why cut W and not E? increasing the E speed points toward its use as an escape tool so why not cut the damage from that if its not supposed to be used as a proper ability -.-

Seleena11/8/2018, 5:44:04 PM1 votes

it's not her dmg that is pissing me off while playing against her, it's aftershock nerf that shit n don't nerf her dmg as hard.

Power Cosmic11/8/2018, 8:05:41 PM1 votes

The new passive does very little for laning and will be inconsistent overall while the W/R are imperative to her laning. She stays good, healthy, and decently viable bc of having the W counter cast on enemy aggro.

DeusVult11/8/2018, 12:25:30 AM1 votes

I believe that it is an overall buff to her.

She goes from having no passive to getting a passive, even it will wildly vary game to game.

Better base AS for last hitting. Big for mages. Big mana cost buff for Q Mana cost buff for W 10% AP nerf on W and R. The biggest hit is the base damage on W, losing 50 damage at rank 5, but I think this is Riot targeting aftershock Liss players using her base damages early game.

In return for this, she gets 120-520+30%AP possible damage on kill in a team fight. So she loses 20% AP but gains a possible 30%AP per kill (meaning a possible 120%AP in a teamfight [the last kill's AP ratio wouldnt really matter, there is no one for it to hit])

Will this change Liss play style? Yes, I see her going from a fight initiator to someone who could come in 2-3 seconds after the fight starts for a huge wombo.

Z3Sleeper11/8/2018, 3:02:14 AM1 votes

I'm gonna need to see some proof of that "one of my most played champs".

https://i.imgur.com/FipwJ7e.png