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Defense isnt bad, tanks just get the worst deal

Moody P·8/25/2019, 9:43:15 PM·14 votes·8,524 views

if defense were bad then we wouldn't have an issue with things like aftershock mages and kaisa making you kill her 3 times before she dies for real

what makes tanks mediocre in terms of actually tanking is that the only thing they get through their items is adding onto their immediate defense. this is perfectly fine for general purposes, since tanks are generally there to open up the fight, not see it to the end. And it works fine in pro play too because they can coordinate and turn that initial tank boost into a close-out. Not so much for soloQ.

What makes fighters better at surviving fights is that while they have less immediate defense, they have sustain. They can return their defenses back to them consistently assuming they get over their vulnerability to burst focus at the start of a fight. This is the biggest thing that separates their strength from tanks -- sustain is just much better than raw defenses at pretty much every point after Aftershock wears off. Because after a certain point the rank items are only valuable for their passives, and all you're doing with the stats from them is just making enemy counter build more efficient.

The sustain gap has gotten a lot wider, too. Tanks used to have pretty generous amounts of health regen back when it was more readily available and was flat pen not % based. This made Visage a pretty valuable item for tanks even if they didn't have innate healing, because the boost to their regen was good enough. Also we had Banshees and GA as tank items. GA is important to note because it essentially gave tanks a "free" 30% of their health back, so you could technically call it sustain. HP regen right now is only available on an item most tanks don't buy and which makes you free food to anyone with good % damage. So, that compounding effect effectively removes a large part of your survivability because you're losing sustain and not compensating that elsewhere.

Basically, if you want tanks buffed as tank threats and not damage threats, don't ask for armor buffs. Ask for health gains back.

38 Comments

MrFawknSunshine8/25/2019, 10:00:56 PM11 votes

easy fix

either buff all tanks base hp , armor, mr not damage

or make all the tank items scale with bonus % stats

like instead of flat buffs on sunfire armor and hp make it give % bonus armor and hp based on how much the champ already has or gets. therefore it cant be abused by non tanks

like currently sunfire gives 425 hp + 60 armor ok so lets do this make it give 400 hp and 50 armor + 10% bonus hp and armor

so if you have 2000hp you get an extra 200 hp so you now have 2200 and if you have 100 armor now you have 110

those squishy champs who dont build armor/hp etc wont benefit from it.

Tahminatrix 8/25/2019, 9:53:42 PM6 votes

That and assuming you don't get bursted, health that you get later (sustain) is better than health that you start with in a fight (your max health) because then it wont play against you with incoming % max health damage.

Ever since I started abusing ravenous hunter on tanks (up to 14% of your damage healing you) they have been a lot better to play in solo queue, that 14% is a lot considering tanks tend to have decent base damage and ravenous hunter applies to damage effects from items like item 3075

iiGazeii8/26/2019, 5:09:46 AM4 votes

Tank items that gave you scaling resistances the longer you're in combat with champions would be cool. Kinda like Liandry's, but inverted. You take less damage the longer you're in combat.

Actual defensive runes would be nice, too. Bone Plating is pretty much it. Conditioning and Overgrowth are free stats, not interactive. Second Wind is lane sustain against poke. Shield Bash is damage. Demolish is tower damage. Font of Life is garbage. Unflinching is CC resist. Revitalize only helps if you have healing/shielding.

So of the Resolve tree, only one rune actually gives you extra tankiness when you need it.

Scrap Font of Life, replace it with something like "You get 1-10% damage resist, scaling with your missing health" or something like that. Boom. Tank rune.

Fear the Kayn8/26/2019, 2:28:32 AM4 votes

Its just very obvious a lot of tanks have outdated kits. Tanks should be all about absorbing damage and cc, not dishing damage out. Meanwhile we have stuff like full AP Malphite that has more burst potential than most assassins and mages.

EDIT: Isn't this what tank players want? To be a TANK absorbing damage? Why am I getting downvoted for stating what tank players should want?

LordGeovanni8/25/2019, 11:39:09 PM3 votes

Lol you use things with super saftey and usually builing life steal with free excapes to justify defense not being bad.

But sure why would defense be bad when you have on average 1400 less hp than older seasons 80 less armor 70 less magic resist as a full tank build and playing into champions like Darius Garen one ignoring your defense the other shredding it for the entire team and item 3071 just need one a game not to mention item 3020 item 3165 item 3135 item 3151 Mordekaiser item 3001 item 3036 item 1051 item 3031

ProfDrDeath8/26/2019, 5:35:58 AM2 votes

Tanks used to have pretty generous amounts of health regen back when it was more readily available and was flat pen not % based.

You need to replace "pen" with "regen" in this sentence.

Otherwise, agree with you. The issue nowadays is that Riot pretty much gutted the availability of the primary defense stat (health) for tanks, both in the form of simply raw stats and sustain. Sustain in this context does not just refer to Hp5, either. Imo, Knight's Vow's sustain effect was a good thing for tanks, as it gave them a form of active in-fight sustain that is independent from them doing damage, but still tied to them doing their job efficiently. I'd love for Riot to introduce an item that only gave that sustain effect without the damage shift.

Lovelle8/26/2019, 4:55:25 PM2 votes

Would definitely like to see health regen options improved for tanks. The complete lack of sustain is one of their biggest issues I feel. After they use their CC, they have nothing else to keep them alive in fights. Back in way earlier seasons, nearly every tank item used to have health regen tacked onto it. The armor options in particular could really use some help in this department.

I think the only armor item that gives health regen is item 3800, but it only has like 30 armor, so you're definitely making tradeoffs when you buy it.

The DPS classes don't have to make tradeoffs like this, they just get everything they need from their first 2 items and everything after that just amplifies what they already have.

GigglesO8/26/2019, 5:26:38 PM2 votes

Just bring back FoN...

Inb4 “but other classes abuse it”

Make it scale off of %hp armor and MR

The more armor and MR you have, the higher the %hp it heals per second.

Everyone has been wondering how to stop tank item abuse, but everyone just bitches and moans every time you mention shit like this or melee only. It’s not that hard, just gotta make a few tough changes.

Saevum8/26/2019, 3:22:19 AM1 votes

And that's why Zac is fun.

U R Good At Game8/26/2019, 4:34:58 PM1 votes

Only if you push tanks and perma farm juggernauts out of top lane first.....I don't want more perma farm till 30m match-ups and that's exactly what you get whenever tank sustain is good. The entire first patches of the season was everyone just playing garbage like DrMundo Nasus Sion Maokai Yorick because you couldn't kill them, they either shielded or healed over your damage and just permafarmed until they outscaled you to the point they can turret dive you through farm alone..... Ik yorick and Nasus aren't tanks but literally everytime they buff tanks those 2 champions pop off because they LOVE perma farm lanes and 9/10 when they buff tanks they indirectly buff nasus and yorick or an item they use anyway.