Anyone else feel that Ekko's kit just doesn't feel right?

DeathByWaffle·5/13/2015, 7:44:42 PM·122 votes·10,928 views

I don't know about you guys, but when I watched the Seconds video, I was expecting two things out of Ekko.

  1. He would be a melee dps character, kind of like Fiora or Yi.
  2. He would utilize a core "time-warp" mechanic that would allow him to effectively redo fights.

Now, the first point is true, and Riot delivered on that at least. The second... not so much.

To clarify, Riot delivered on the time-warp mechanic, but only partially. For those of you who haven't seen his skills, his ult is as follows:

R: Chronobreak

Ekko rewinds time, briefly turning untargetable and invulnerable before reappearing wherever he was a few seconds ago. Once he reappears, Ekko recovers a portion of the health he lost over those few seconds while dealing tons of damage to all nearby enemies.

What I have a problem with specifically are the parts about recovering his health part and dealing damage. This does not line up with what we see in the video at all. In fact, it completely contradicts it. From what the video shows us, Ekko's time-warp is a complete utility spell and that he holds over the damage from each warp.

Some people might say that would be OP. Others might say it'd be UP. I say that that way would be more interesting. As it stands, most of his kit is either boring and bland or just doesn't feel right on him.

His passive is by far the worst offender. It is essentially a direct clone of Gnar's W. The only difference is that Ekko's also slows. Any other differences will probably be superficial at best, such as the numbers or the type of damage it does.

His Q is a little bit better, but also suffers from lack of cohesion to his theme. Ekko is supposed to be a boy who fights and overcomes through repeated trial and error facilitated by his time-warp gizmo. Timewinder just doesn't have that feeling.

His W is cool, but like his Q, suffers from cohesion to his theme. Ekko has one trick and one trick only: traveling a few seconds back in time in order to unmake and correct mistakes.

His E is... well, weird. That's not going back in time. If anything, that's probably moving forward in time. And I guess I would be willing to believe that maybe Ekko's device lets him move forward as well as backwards, but that's really kinda stretching my suspension of disbelief. If anything, I feel this ability fits better on Zilean as a castable buff.

I won't say I have better ideas for how Ekko's kit should have been made, nor can I claim that what ideas I do have are well balanced, but for his ult at least, I feel that something along the lines of this would fit better.

R: Chronobreak

Passive: Ekko generates up to 1/2/3 time-warp charges periodically. When any enemy champion damages Ekko, they become marked for X amount of time. Any allied champions who damages these enemies also receive the mark.

Active: Ekko expends a charge in order to reverse time. Ekko and all champions affected by the time-warp mark are returned to whatever location they were at a few seconds ago, with all their cooldowns restored to that point in time. Health and mana are also refunded for all affected champions, except for Ekko.

Like I said, maybe that's not the most well balanced idea, but I think there are ways to deal with that. For example, reducing the number of charges Ekko can hold, maybe removing the restoring cooldowns, etc. etc. The point is, and maybe this is just my arrogance speaking, the core mechanic driving the spell is just more _interesting _ than the current Chronobreak.

Anyway, thoughts? What do you guys think? Do you think Riot delivered on the concepts and themes behind Ekko's character, or do you feel underwhelmed?

198 Comments

Peridition5/13/2015, 10:54:48 PM34 votes

He feels really uninspired.

Hate or love Bard, Kalista, Azir and Rek'sai. At least they brought something new to the game.

SquirrellyOtter5/13/2015, 8:06:47 PM27 votes

I can't find the source, but I do remember seeing a Rioter mention that Ekko's kit wasn't what was in the video. Plus, from a gameplay perspective, a kit in the style of "Edge of Tomorrow" like what was featured in the Seconds teaser is just never going to work in a multiplayer game. Sorry you got your hopes up.

Then again, I'm jaded from the Great Disappointments in Gaming 2014 (Watch Dogs, Destiny, Assassin's Creed: Unity, etc) so it doesn't surprise me that the actual kit is nothing like the cinematic. Get on my level of no expectations, all aboard the no-hype express.

Edit: Also, you can't reasonably post a poll asking if his kit "feels" right or wrong since he's literally going up on the PBE as I type. No one's played him yet. You can't have an informed opinion about his kit.

Strawberrycocoa5/13/2015, 7:47:40 PM26 votes

Well his ult states it recovers a PORTION of the health lost. Compare that to the video, where Ekko has his arm broken when the Juggernaut steps on it, only to rewind and his arm is clearly still hurting, but functional. His broken arm was healed, but not entirely.

Vistha Kai5/13/2015, 8:36:13 PM12 votes

You forgot to mention he'll be AP.

The5lacker5/14/2015, 12:46:07 AM9 votes

You did watch the Bard video, right? Can Bard swish like the wind, disappear into the sky, and leave entire villages to die due to his negligence?

He really only manages point 3. Basically, don't think videos are going to tell you anything about a champion's kit but its basic identity. Resetting every fight doesn't work from a design perspective. It'd end up either senselessly complex or broken as hell. And your suggestion fits about as well as the current version, I'm gonna be honest.

Grimmrock5/13/2015, 10:28:10 PM8 votes

Im interested in him, it seems he isnt overly high in the AP ratios, making me think that AP/AS might be the way to go with him, depending on the bonus from W and passive, furthermore, it appears his kit could work really well as a jungler, grabbing the magus enchant on say, chilling smite, dashing in, blink-slow-AA ect

furthermore, he has alot of utility in that kit that might make him viable in support and toplane, the guy's gonna be squish, but I think overall he's going to be usefull. definitly think he's gonna be a swing builder, like Kennen (can functionally go AD w/ AS or AP)

qetzel5/13/2015, 10:53:32 PM7 votes

The full time warp wouldn't be OP or UP. It would just not be game breaking. There is a reason Riot had a little war against burst healing. It is not fun to have your good actions completely negated. I also think the healing on the ultimate is implied by the video - he was certainly a bit stronger when he got up than just before. Not perfect, but he looked a little better.

On to the rest of the theme. Ekko uses trial and error to beat his opponents. This is true. However, to the opponent, what does this look like? Someone who predicts the future and has the reflexes to act on his knowledge. That is what the game play is about. If you can predict your opponents moves, your damage will sky-rocket. There is a 0.2 ratio on his Q's first damage instance and a 0.6 on its return. If you can predict where they are going (and there is a long delay, so you have to) you can deal larger amounts of damage. Same for his stun. There is a three second delay on that thing. You need to know where your opponent will move before firing it. His passive and E are there because he is supposed to be assassin-ish. He is definitely supposed to be quick and nimble. If he didn't have any mobility it wouldn't fit his theme.

What I don't like: The stacking attacks on the passive. It has been done before. He needs a new way of getting that movement speed boost. The missing health damage on his auto attacks. Does he need that? Really? I suppose he has fairly long cooldowns for an assassin and fairly poor ratios overall. What I do like: The game play theme of prediction The damage on his ultimate. Without perfect team set up - a knockback right into his ultimate - I don't think he will be able to get any damage from it, which seems right. Reward teamwork.

Overall he seems like a fun champion with clear counterplay.

Inphernal5/13/2015, 8:00:35 PM7 votes

Nobody is going to have a good feel for him until he's released. I sense nerfs coming once people figure out his kit, but probably not for a while, like Lucian

Daedalus8715/13/2015, 8:36:20 PM7 votes

It doesn't match the Video (entirely), but it's probably the closest thing we can get to a time warp champion.

Nilok5/14/2015, 3:52:38 PM4 votes

I would only add one thing to your Chronobreak to represent Ekko learning from the past.

"Ekko gains a stacking % damage bonus against all enemies he has marked after he activates Chronobreak for a few seconds."

This allows Ekko to become very powerful by redoing a fight over and over until he 'gets it right'. This also allows the other team to try and burst him down before he can Chronobreak again and try and out maneuver them.

OperationDEEZ15/13/2015, 11:54:26 PM3 votes

He feels like Diana more than anything else.

Shroom Junkie5/14/2015, 3:21:22 AM3 votes

{quoted}

R: Chronobreak

Passive: Ekko generates up to 1/2/3 time-warp charges periodically. When any enemy champion damages Ekko, they become marked for X amount of time. Any allied champions who damages these enemies also receive the mark.

Active: Ekko expends a charge in order to reverse time. Ekko and all champions affected by the time-warp mark are returned to whatever location they were at a few seconds ago, with all their cooldowns restored to that point in time. Health and mana are also refunded for all affected champions, except for Ekko.

BEEDOOBEEDOO KALISTA-BARD HATE PATROL INBOUND CAN CONTROL OTHER CHAMPIONS TOO OP HATERS GONNA HATE

Jungle Lux God5/14/2015, 3:24:53 AM3 votes

While I would have to play him first before making any conclusive decisions, I think Ekko's kit seems right on him.

Ekko can manipulate time, but that doesn't mean that he should be solely based around time. While I would have to read his lore to make sure, he seems to be an inventor. He seems to have created several different gadgets, including his timewarping device, and he uses them and his sword to fight. In that sense, his kit makes more sense: he's not strictly a time-based assassin. He's a crafty assassin that uses a bunch of little gadgets in order to do all of the cool things he's capable of, including altering time.

Also, we already have a champion who's entire gameplay fantasy is based around time in Zilean. I'm afraid that making Ekko based purely on time would make him too similar to Zilean or leave him with too uninteresting gameplay mechanics to be worth playing.

You can also look at the individual pieces of his kit and compare them to other champions, but at the end of the day champions need to be viewed as a whole in order to actually get a good idea of what they are. You can compare Ekko's passive to Gnar's W, his Q to Ahri's Q, his W to Viktor's W, and his E to whatever other gapcloser you want to compare it to, but at the end of the day these mechanics come together to create a champion that is truly unique, and is something we don't really have: a utility-based assassin.

HavelDaRock5/15/2015, 9:36:32 AM2 votes

I think some people's expectations of his ult are just a bit too high....

Narasimha5/13/2015, 11:29:05 PM2 votes

Active: Ekko expends a charge in order to reverse time. Ekko and all champions affected by the time-warp mark are returned to whatever location they were at a few seconds ago, with all their cooldowns restored to that point in time. Health and mana are also refunded for all affected champions, except for Ekko.

Just to jump in, while this would be an excellent idea regardless of balance, it would also be impossible to implement. The game would have to potentially track all 10 champions (I'm assuming that marks from allies can be passed on to different enemies) and their health/mana at different intervals. That is INSANE.

Niting5/15/2015, 12:59:59 AM2 votes

The thing is, it will be very very very hard to code for what you described. I don't think "moving back in time" in a multiplayer, online game has never been done before, its just so hard due to all the inputs people give, such as issuing pings, dragon/baron/buff spawns, cds, ect...there is so much that goes into every second that a player does, that it will be too hard to reverse all of that.

hazerddex5/13/2015, 10:21:09 PM1 votes

remember when they said they would not release any more champions before ao shin?....