What is GOOD champ design?

VanCanBanMan·10/21/2019, 5:33:29 AM·3 votes·2,442 views

Kinda stole this idea form a thread about game design, but since here on the boards we love bitching about the new overtuned flavor of the week champs, what would you consider good champ design/any examples of good champ design?

14 Comments

Metal Janna10/21/2019, 6:05:30 AM3 votes

Good hook support design: Thresh. ...When Riot hasn't overbuffed him for Worlds this year.

Most importantly he actually risks death if he walks past the minions for a clear shot with his hook, unlike most hook supports. Also he brings more than just his hook, which allows good Threshes to separate themselves from bad ones even if they can't land a hook.

Baby Ghoul10/21/2019, 12:15:54 PM2 votes

I've been a support main through several seasons now and these are the types of support I've felt were fair to play against most of the time. There are exceptions of course. Anytime worlds is around Riot tends to buff Thresh to unhealthy levels and during the Ardent Censor meta enchanters were overpowered.

Hook: Thresh

Tank: Braum Alistar Leona Taric

Enchanter: Nami Soraka Sona

Roamer: Bard

Mage:

Hook supports are hard to get right, and a lot of them have suspicious hitboxes like Nautilus .

Tanks supports are usually champions that nobody has significant beef with outside of particular metas. Let's be honest though, tanks aren't in the best spot right now.

Enchanters in contrast can be pretty frustrating to play against. Janna is so oppressive when in the right hands, and she's always been good. Lulu has had a lot of moments where she hasn't be healthy for the game. Karma is another one that fades in out of the meta, and not a lot of people miss her when she's out of it. If they want to learn how to design a healthy enchanter kit, then they should take notes from Yuumi 's design, and do the exact opposite.

All supports have to roam to some extent, but Bard spends the most time out lane, typically harassing the midlaner. I was excited when he was first released because it was a new type of playstyle, but until recently they haven't put further emphasis on roaming. However, the upcoming preseason changes to XP are likely going to make a lot more supports roam. I'm also curious as to how Senna will factor into all of that.

Mage supports haven't been healthy for bot lane since the Sightstone changes. Before we usually had to just endure periods where Zyra was a must ban. I mean Zyra 's OP moments literally created the low ELO gem MissFortune support. How iconic was that? It's still crazy to me how so many people play MissFortune into everything just because they saw pros do it to counter Zyra years ago.

Anyways, now they're all problematic. Mages had to buy Sigtstone, or take a significant risk and build AP on first back. On top of that, the non-mage support would get Sightstone on the first back, win the vision game, and get +150 health. Now they get to build damage while procing item 3303 for their vision quest. There was a window where mage supports needed to make plays early game before the first back. That's why they got a reputation for being cheesy, but now they're kind of just brainless. Before when I died to a mage support it was because I did something stupid, or they pulled off something amazing. Now they just do so much damage you can't effectively build against early game. Duo mages bot are now becoming a thing.

Syrile10/21/2019, 6:38:08 AM2 votes

Thresh, as mentioned above, is the very definition of a well-designed champion.

Here is my list of champions that I feel are well-designed in some way or the other. Some of this list is certainly controversial.

Amumu Anivia Annie Ashe Azir Bard Braum Caitlyn Camille Cassiopeia Chogath Corki Diana DrMundo Ekko Elise Evelynn Fiora Fizz Gragas Heimerdinger Irelia Ivern JarvanIV Janna Jayce Jhin Kaisa Karma Kassadin Kindred KogMaw Leblanc Leona Lissandra Lucian Lulu Malzahar MissFortune Nami Nautilus Neeko Nocturne Orianna Ornn Rakan Rammus Rumble Sejuani Shen Sion Skarner Sona Swain Syndra Taliyah Taric Thresh Trundle TwistedFate Varus Velkoz Vi Viktor Xayah Zilean Zyra Kayle LeeSin Shyvana

Many of these champions could use a tiny tweak or two and they would be pretty close to perfect. Yes, some of them feel totally unbalanced but I think most of this list is very well balanced and many of them have very good stories or characters to go with the style of play.

This list is a list that I feel were good before some changes were made to them that ruined them or heavily set them back.

Galio Garen Ryze Viktor Swain Shaco Urgot Zac Ornn

A couple of these may appear on multiple lists due to the fact that there have been strange changes made lately.

And the list of people that could be extremely good if they were not so overtuned or overloaded. Minor changes to the kit or base stats could fix these, I think.

Sylas Alistar Sion Jinx Quinn Renekton LeeSin Morgana Hecarim Vladimir (this one is very tough to put on here, however, when the games were longer and it was much harder to scale up for him and his early game could be punished more, I feel he was more balanced. Now, definitely not in the slightest).

Doge202010/21/2019, 6:45:09 PM1 votes

I think Nasus is an example of good champ design.

He is simple enough that new-to-the-game or new-to-the-champ players can pick him up easily. But he is also very in-depth because his mechanics all revolve around the basic fundamentals of the game. To win games with nasus doesn’t require fancy mechanics like zed or other high skilled champs, it requires the player to know how to literally play the game.

If nasus overextends then he can get ganked (and because of how squishy he is early game he wants to avoid getting killed).

Kai Guy10/21/2019, 11:29:41 AM1 votes

Why is this downvoted?

Syrile10/21/2019, 6:53:15 AM1 votes

For specifics as to what a good champion design is, however....

Good champion design, from the ground up, is Thresh.

Thematically, an awesome character. His "personality" matches his kit perfectly. His music, his in-game presence, everything. Prior to the changes to League of Legends, Thresh required a lot of skill to be very good with. Now, they have watered it all down. However, he still has an incredibly high skill-ceiling, allowing for a lot of skill-expression. He has carry potential for a support as you can play-make all day with him. He has fun off-meta builds for those days you want to do something different. He has tons of various ways to play him, including different item builds, etc.

A good champion can be a good champion for many reasons though.

For example, the non-reworked Garen, I felt was a good champion because he was built as a beginner champion. He is not mechanically difficult, yet when played well and picked in the right matchup, there are one-tricks that made it to challenger with him.

The contrast to this is someone like Lee Sin. An interesting monk that has a very high level of mechanical skill to do top-level things with. Personality and story is not as fleshed out as some characters, but overall, he has a decent role in the game.

Other characters similar to this is someone like Orianna. A cool clockwork mage that used to be one of the measuring sticks for mid laners. Push Q, ball goes there. Sounds easy. Champion is not easy though. The mid-level range on her skills mixed with the knowledge of match-ups for her gives her oodles of skill-expression and was used for a long time to determine how good you are at mid lane. Having almost no outright counters at the highest level, making most match-ups skill match-ups.

In contrast to Ori, we have someone like Annie. Long range auto-attacks for early poke and pressure with mid-range spells that do tons of burst and very high kill-threat with flash up. Mechanically, very simple champion that can snowball out of control very quickly.

These are all different types of good champions.

I think, overall, due to the variety of champion styles that can be "good" I would say the only requirements would be this:

Strong kits that enable them to perform the role they are created for.

Kit allows counter-play while having outplay potential, be it through mechanics or game-knowledge or positioning, etc.

A kit that is as rewarding as it is difficult. Specifically, what this means is that the champion is not "Push R, deal 1000 true damage" with a kit that is exceedingly safe to the point they are unkillable. Instead, if you perform a well-timed combo, you are rewarded. If you are in position and properly execute when an opponent missteps, they are punished for it, etc. While also allowing for that kit to be punished for your mistakes.

And honestly, that is about it. These three things are truly required for a champion to be "good."

Thought-out, well-designed character stories are huge plus, but purely for the in-game part, not required. On a personal level, this is a requirement for me to say they are truly exceptional characters.

Akenero10/21/2019, 1:09:56 PM1 votes

Just giving my 2 cents here Best tank design:Alistar Great engage, disengage, has pretty clear weaknesses and strengths Assassin Qiyana she's actually amazing kitwise, and fair for an assassin imo MageAhri design wise, really good Adc Jinx she's just amazing Jungler Warwick obviously SupportThresh