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Completed support items are rough on supports

Linna Excel·11/22/2019, 6:02:55 PM·58 votes·15,932 views

I just hopped into a practice game out of curiosity and the nerf to minion gold still exists after you fully upgrade the item.

So not only do you lose the gold income from the tribute/spoils passive but also you are still penalized from CSing. For a support that's technically able to defend the base after an inhib drops, that's pretty brutal for a player and a team. So you'd have to either give up the ability to ward and sell the item, or your team might risk losing a ton of gold.

Did riot think this through? Did riot not understand that by adding AD support items, more types of champs might want to go into the "support" role? That's really odd to me. On one hand riot made an itemization change that basically says anyone can technically support now. On the other, they go nope.

If riot wants to keep going on this route, maybe they need to remove warding from support items and let players upgrade yellow trinket somehow.

51 Comments

KABLUMP11/22/2019, 6:25:49 PM17 votes

it's definitely bad for relic shield people too, the loss of your procs is so painful

Nahath11/22/2019, 8:47:13 PM12 votes

I wonder if this is a bug. Otherwise, it seems like a horrifyingly bad decision, as it's often essential for a support to be able to wave clear late game (ex: after a team fight where most players are dead and a tower is threatened). If they followed Heimtech's suggestion to remove the debuff at stage 3, then that's great, as that lets it solve the original purpose without this horrible late effect.

TobiaskJ11/23/2019, 2:30:15 AM8 votes

Its a huge nerf to supports who were active during the game.

Now, as an active support,you make the same amount of gold as an afk support sitting in base LOLOL

Illabethe11/23/2019, 2:59:52 PM8 votes

Here's my feeling on the support items:

They actually are fair when you are the stronger bot laners. They SUCK when you are countered and cannot use them. When you cannot poke because poking would result in counterpoke which is much stronger, or even a hard CC, you're screwed. You will take 20+ minutes to quest. When you are the strong lane, your Quest for wards will finish about 2-3 minutes later than the old support items, but your overall accumulation, item advantage, will generally enable a strong lead anyways, due to takedown opportunities increasing.
The timing of gold accumulation is a problem. Old items allowed the 500 Quest to generally give you wards before most junglers would challenge Drakes. Now, the items are finishing the 500 mark by about 11 minutes when playing well, 2-3 minutes AFTER the first drake is contested. Control wards only go so far.

On Nami, I used to get the Quest in under 9 minutes. Why is this happening? Isn't the Tier 1 gold higher now?

Mana regen has made costs more selective and passive. This is why my Nami is now lucky to get 500G by 11 minutes. I used to be able to economize around Manaflow Band alone, and W > Auto > Q and pick up my 3 stacks whenever Manaflow went off cooldown. Now..... if you do that you will run out of mana by 6 minutes. In other words, support item procs no longer synergize well with Manaflow band, even though "it's what we have."
The late game penalty needs removed.

The Good: All Support items can now be used by ALL champions.

#I cannot understress the value of this. Do you expect to be countered by Jhin as Senna? buy item 3854 instead of item 3862 . Poke Minions instead of champions so you can farm gold at a safe range, have a little more HP to take the occasional shot.

Poke lane for Nami? go item 3858 Instead of item 3850

Making these choices are going to be pivotal to your season 10 climb

xHeimtechZX11/22/2019, 7:57:38 PM7 votes

I agree, the minion gold debuff is horrible. I get they didn't want non-supports to take the item, but its just such a low number for the debuff to activate. If the inhib gets taken down and I need to help minion clear, I will be doing that. At least remove the cs debuff at stage 3. Its easy to not trigger it during lane.

Ηuawei11/22/2019, 7:12:33 PM6 votes

I will just sell the item and let my team without wards until Rito fixes this fuckery, assuming i will even play support or the game itself at this point and not just QQ in the forum about it when im bored

gileskd11/23/2019, 3:34:56 AM6 votes

just buy another item that gives you gold like zz'rotpor....... o wait nvm!

Modnar Erom11/23/2019, 7:26:06 PM5 votes

What you want to be doing as "support" currently is:

go an AD lethality champion to buy the cheap new item (umbral) so you can insta-clear more wards = more gold income
buy 0 control wards, the wealth transfer should they be cleared by an enemy support is just too great. If you absolutely must buy one, only place it to clear a known enemy ward while your sweeper and umbral are on cooldown, and only in an important location -> dragon/baron
Once your quest is "completed" you want to steal the caddy and a melee or two from every wave just never clear 2 consecutive waves even if u must let a tower fall or an inhib or a nexus
If a jungle camp is up and near your path back from base, that would be shame to let that gold go to waste with the new quick re-spawn timers
Since you will have vision dominance with the lethality item, sneaky into the enemy jungle under the pretense of "warding" and if the enemy junglers camps just happen to be up, well u can't turn down free gold. If you get caught blame it on lack of vision from your teammates since you will have the highest vision score by far
KS every chance you get, it is the only gold you are going to get.

TobiaskJ11/23/2019, 9:13:48 PM4 votes

So

In other words, in late game, no matter how active you are as support, you get the same amount of gold as an AFK support sitting in base. TY RIOT

Devil Support11/23/2019, 12:53:00 PM4 votes

There is literally no income for support after the completion. Feels bad as a support player.[sg-janna]

Willink11/23/2019, 8:09:39 AM3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x8ETT2K8,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-22T18:02:55.370+0000)

I just hopped into a practice game out of curiosity and the nerf to minion gold still exists after you fully upgrade the item.

So not only do you lose the gold income from the tribute/spoils passive but also you are still penalized from CSing. For a support that's technically able to defend the base after an inhib drops, that's pretty brutal for a player and a team. So you'd have to either give up the ability to ward and sell the item, or your team might risk losing a ton of gold.

Did riot think this through? Did riot not understand that by adding AD support items, more types of champs might want to go into the "support" role? That's really odd to me. On one hand riot made an itemization change that basically says anyone can technically support now. On the other, they go nope.

If riot wants to keep going on this route, maybe they need to remove warding from support items and let players upgrade yellow trinket somehow.

Riot doesnt think. Hence lethality buff but no defensive buffs with it.

RedCyclone11/23/2019, 12:36:16 AM3 votes

There should have been a reward you can feel

Something as simple as it giving you increased gold when destroying wards (including gaining the difference when a ally kills one in the vicinity that you assisted with clearing) Or something like your trinket gets an extra charge

GinoSoldier11/23/2019, 3:10:47 AM2 votes

Not a single one of these are supports and only abused the position because Riot doesn't like enchanters being relevant.

We're better off with them entirely gone from botlane.

People complain the shit out of a damage meta but when they get to pick a role supposed to bring in utility and defense, count on those same people to ignore all of that and pick MOAR DAMAGE.

Smyrage11/23/2019, 12:12:35 AM2 votes

Support main here. I didn't notice too much difference in terms of itemisation. I can still itemize as support by going for the support items. They wanted to pull some power from certain Supports, because they were overwhelming for the ADC. The supports you mentioned can either function with less income or just simply vanish from it. To discuss with your examples: Morgana doesn't need many items apart from Zhonya. Her kit makes her function on Support budget. Zyra too, just with less damage. Lux just won't be able to go Luden's every game. is better that vanishes from botlane. MissFortune was mostly picked around when Zyra dominated the support role. She can go support with the new AD support items.

As for the AD items: I think it isn't bad. Even prior to this patch, people were playing some AD champions as Supports, because they had the kit to do so. Examples: Pantheon Ashe Jhin I think it is good, that these champions are getting recognised as actually viable support picks and now they have the items for it. Even I will dust down support.

Basically saying many of those picks are fully viable, they will just no longer be able to outdamage the ADC by going for items no support was supposed to build, like Luden's, Liandry, Rylai, Morello etc..

Trias00011/23/2019, 10:45:02 AM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x8ETT2K8,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-22T18:02:55.370+0000)

Did riot not understand that by adding AD support items, more types of champs might want to go into the "support" role?

And in Lego Leggends we hate diversity and want to be meta slaves. So god forbid more types of champs go into the support role.

Wayward Fish11/23/2019, 1:35:39 AM1 votes

Maybe we're doing it wrong. Maybe the idea is to buy a ward item until it completes the quest, then buy another ward item so you still have income and just live off pinks.

DeathBurst11/29/2019, 6:48:06 PM1 votes

The penalty is still there, IF you trigger it in the first place. And that is very unlikely. You need to farm more than 20 CS (over 5 minutes) to trigger it, so that's farming 3 waves. You can totally defend an inhib without issue.

And if you are at the point where the support has to stay in base to defend inhib while the rest of the team go do something else elsewhere on the map, even if you eventually trigger the penalty, and after triggering it farm 3 more waves, that's what? A 200 gold difference? Won't change anything so late in the game.