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Wukong nerfs on PBE

big boi edri·7/10/2018, 4:19:08 PM·18 votes·14,697 views

7/9 PBE Update #2: More Tentative Balance Changes

Wukong

Nimbus Strike (E) damage lowered from 65/110/155/200/245 to 65/100/135/170/205

I know Wukong has a high win rate and decent pick rate right now. I'm not here to contest him being nerfed, but I would like to put my 2 cents in on where the nerf is targeted. Nerfing his base damage on the E reinforces his play style as an assassin, and hurts his early game quite a bit in regards to both wave clear and trading. Generally, E is always maxed first. It gives the potential to trade a bit better in lane due to its base damage and attack speed buff, as well as CS when needed. So when you nerf the base damage on his E, what are you really nerfing? You're nerfing his early game, where he already sucks.

I've played Wukong a lot over the past couple years over multiple accounts, and I feel this nerf isn't where it needs to be. Yes his E will have a bit lower damage, but that isn't going to impact his potential to 1 shot your carry in .5 seconds once he reaches 2 items. Why? Because his scaling is still sky high. He will still get , and he will still blow you up. The 40 damage knocked off his maxed E isn't going to stop that.

If you want to nerf something on him that makes it less frustrating to play against - you need to nerf his AD ratios. Wukong is still going to have unfavorable matchups top lane the majority of the time, he'll be weaker clearing the jungle where he already sucks; really the only place this effectively nerfs him in a sensible manner is mid lane (and even then his level 1/2 all in wasn't nerfed). For Top/Jungle though, this is the wrong place to hit him (really doing anything to hurt him in the jungle isn't even necessary).

Possibly consider nerfing the compensation he received for Duskblade. He is currently getting 10-50% on his Q as opposed to what it used to be. What about 10-30% (10/15/20/25/30)? That's somewhat consistent with the nerf to his E proposed, but hits him in his 1 shot potential harder. This reinforces his need to snowball in order to do anything worth while (which without a rework is the best that could be asked for).

TLDR; I like Wu and I don't want to see him repeatedly nerfed into oblivion because you hit him in the wrong spot the first time. Don't nerf his base E damage, nerf his scalings.

35 Comments

Arcane Blue Boi7/10/2018, 11:42:54 PM11 votes

thank god now i'll be instakilled by 2050 damage instead of 2080

litterlyfe7/11/2018, 9:22:12 AM5 votes

_I agree with a lot of what OP is saying here and I as well have been playing Wukong for quite some time, so long in fact quite literally his release in 2011. Not necessarily on this account I'm posting from because I've got through a LOT of accounts over the years because I'm ~~unreformed~~ and mostly play on LAN now to play with friends. My OPGG. I have seen this champion go from being an S tier pick in competitive & soloQ, to being an absolute trash pile dumpster garbage ult bot and EVERYTHING in between. From feral flare jungle, abusing stackable black cleavers, and brutalizer and flatpen. He's taken me to diamond & master tier multiple times on NA & LAN even during the worst times of his viability. The "Juggernaut" patch, Janna, Lulu, and Kogmaw shield meta, and the DREADED tank metas that riot loved to shove down our throat every season. Regardless, he's been one of the only champions I've ever truly enjoyed and always come back to despite the meta being ass for him because I knew he would always feel the same and I appreciated the familiarity of it. I'd been dying for a small or large scale rework for seasons, so when I saw him getting compensation buffs for duskblade being nerfed a while back on the PBE, I was absolutely thrilled to finally see him getting some attention, while also dreading it at** the very same time.** _

This is flatout not how you bring MonkeyKing in line with this meta or an appropriate approach to tuning him. The champion itself is still bad and flawed to his core. I will gladly explain why. Some points similar to this video which was made in 2015 lol.

The Good
The Bad
The Ugly And where does belong in this meta.
THE GOOD Wukong is very good at one thing, similiar to old he can blow things up. Sometimes almost so well its VERY TOXIC to play against earning him notoriety similar to he who will not be named But with this ability to blow things up comes with a cost, pushing wukong into the role of an extremist champion who lacks the ability to have any item diversity until recently with the addition of So what's the big issue? Why is Wukong suddenly seeing such a sudden resurgence netting him a peak winrate of 55% on KR and 50% and higher on other regions with a low playrate of 1% until v8.13 where people are starting to pick him up in multiple roles Well my fellow bonobo it's simple, this meta is pretty freaking monkey-like itself seeing the disappearance of these scumbags and scumbags like them. The HARD NERFING of crit ADC's and and almost an entire disappearance of crit marksmen like . which was one of biggest banes when it came to mid-late game despite his excellent team fighting. So here we are now in v8.13 which is a meta every player could ask for despite his lack of an identity between an_ assassin_, bruiser, or tank & extremist raw AD & Flat Pen Centric build paths. His biggest counters OUTSIDE OF LANE are gone, leaving nothing but a scrappy teamfighting meta with other bruisers, tanks, assassins, and weak marksmen and nerfed junglers in front of him where he absolutely thrives and DOMINATES
......when he gets his items......

So, it's no question that is good this patch. It's without certainty. But is MonkeyKing good for the right reasons, and why are Riot giving him the Lucian treatment by attacking the wrong abilities and issues this champion inherently has, thus the bad.

THE BAD This champion is laughably & fundamentally stupid when it comes to his kit. He has the passive of a tank, the kit of an assassin, and is expected to be built like a bruiser. Leaving him in a state with no identity resulting to him having to be built like an extremist because of his insane scaling and synergy with raw AD lethality items.
He HARD loses almost every single lane match up top outside of and and rarely gets the light of day to break even in actually competitive elos, there is only one Challenger Wukong player, Harambe. Everyone else is Diamond I and under. This is not a champion _ANYONE_ can pick up and just get to Challenger with. You actually have to understand how to lane with him and there is depth to laning which is easily the WORST part about Wukong outside of his clunky identity and kit. So? If Wukong is SO DAMN BAD why is he preforming so well right now? Well my dear Watson has anyone stopped to look around to see that all of 's natural predators are virtually extinct? Recreating a similar scenario to EXACTLY what went through where they kept targeting every healthy single part of his kit instead of attacking THE REAL problems. The meta. **The Items. ** And his Matchups & Scalings. THUS LEADING US TO THE ABSOLUTE UGLY.
THE UGLY ** _RIOT THIS CHAMPION FRICKIN SUCKS DESPITE HOW MUCH I LOVE HIM AND YOU'RE GOING TO REPEATIDLY NERF HIM INTO THE DIRT BECAUSE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW TO HANDLE HIM BECAUSE YOU'VE IGNORED HIM FOR SO LONG HE EVENTUALLY BECAME A PROBLEM BECAUSE OF THE META SURROUNDING HIM AND IT'S FRUSTRATING. ** And honestly_ I'm sorry, that was out of pocket but it's the truth.
Q :Something simple : This ability is a standard auto attack reset in lane you put 0 points into after leveling it once, it's standard run of the mill & does nothing until it becomes a nuke late game. You can't even max it in lane match ups against tanks purely because you sacrifice your early wave clear in E if you do, you get outroamed and dove as soon as someone slowpushes a big wave into you.
W : The One dimensional ability : While it is thematically cool and does have some niche tricks you can do with it. You rarely ever get the damage off unless you combo correctly or they stand on it. This is easily the **worst **part of his kit despite it being my favorite.
E : The bread & butter : The ability that allows him to lane and fight back against matchups he almost always loses while also having some relevant source of wave clear to compete with champions like. etc. This is the ability Riot thinks is the issue because of it's base AD, when you play him mid against and other champions like them. But once again, that is purely the meta and the result of Wukongs natural counters being weak.
R: I'm the ultimate, I'm ~~helping~~. : I find myself canceling this more times than ever to cycle off my other abilities because of how little damage it does, and why the hell does an ultimate you're incentivized to let keep going end up being one of the worst in the game you usually end up canceling in 1v1's and some teamfights? It does the bulk of its damage over time, but the it rarely ever ends up going off for that long after the knockup. While I don't think it's necessarily a BAD ultimate, something could definitely be talked about here that we're not addressing.

Riot you have a lot of OPTIONS address his scalings and even him out, nerf him into the dirt, leave him alone and let the dust settle or rework this champion and make him something new or attack the_** REAL_ problems he's facing instead of trying to band-aid nerf the abilities that make him excel_ Mid & Jungle_ while _hard punishing_ him top and forcing him even further out of the role. Address his agency, fix his identity, give him the rework he deserves and get him in the right role _BACK IN THE TOPLANE**_, where he belongs. I believe in you Riot, I do.

Marksmen are getting buffed, things might bounce back around in a more healthy light for MonkeyKing and his natural counters. Please just wait a few patches and readdress wukong after his winrate drops under 50% and you realize that this is simply a_** Kneejerk reaction**_ nerf. I hope a rioter heads our feedback, thanks.

SwiftKitten887/10/2018, 10:43:54 PM2 votes

yeah he needs an early game nerf... not a late game nerf

RBD7/13/2018, 4:17:10 PM2 votes

I think RIOT have given up on actually balancing things, now they're literally just looking at win rates and making pointless nerfs.

I main Wukong, I have nearly 4 million mastery points with the champ and I can tell you, if you touch Wukong you'll only be giving him more of a handicap, he loses most normal match ups in the top lane and he's mediocre at best in the jungle... nerfing his damage, especially his E is unnecessary and plain stupid.

There are items in the game that completely render Wukong useless, not to mention counter picks like Lulu, Janna, Darius, Garen, Cho'gath practically most tanks... I read some adcs/supports perspectives on this and they are out right funny, if they can't hit R or Q fast enough then that's not the Wukongs damage or combo problem, it's there own, I've tried to get a combo off in team fights on the opponents adc countless times only to be given a slap by a Janna Q or a Thresh E or a Lulu R...

Items that counter Wukongs "burst" is simple, Steraks gage, Zhyonas, Hour glass, there are soooo many counter items/champs you could intelligently build to counter most champions in this game but no no.. that would mean people would need to use their brain and build to suit the situation and that's just WRONG! How dare you have to change your build path in a game!

ADCs are glass cannons, they could just as easily 3 hit a bruiser or a support if they had the same level/item advantages as a top lane Wukong plus ADCs are ranged, if you main ADC, don't cry, this meta is what it is and another reason "Wukong" has stuck out like a sore thumb is simply due to this current shitstreak of a "Meta", I hate using this word but if you're going to play APs botlane or some other cheese squishey smite botlane tactic then you're going to get 3 shotted by assassins, simple as that.

Perhaps Riots balancing team should understand these points and keep this "nerf" where it belongs, in the circus of a mod (PBE) as this potential nerf is only going to destroy Wukong and then force a rework which 9 times out of 10 ruins any champs "feel" and "nostalgia" they once had.

Leave Wukong be, it's the players that are retarded and don't know how to build, it's like how often within the bronze to mid plat games do you actually see someone building an Excutioners calling against a Soraka, hmm well in my travels from bronze to high plat I've not seen ALOT of these players, but its the players that DO build these items who excel from the rest... eventually.

If ADCs or Supports are the actual reasons for this potential nerf then let me give you guys a tip, build a Steraks gage or Radiuns, Oh noooo! I hear you say? This game is a tactical game when played properly, if you want to win you'll build adequately to do so, it's as simple as that, Steraks counts the "burst" and trust me, you will not get "one shotted" or Randiuns omens active slows Wukong down which is always a nightmare for us, use your brains.

Fk Em Bums7/15/2018, 11:40:15 PM2 votes

Don't nurf wukong at all he's not good enough.

Salvor Hardın7/10/2018, 4:32:18 PM2 votes

I agree deeply with what you say, I think the problem is the assassin wukong, and that for that reason the nerf should be on the scalings. Maybe a stronger nerf but compensated with some resistance in order to highlight his Fighter facet.

flibitydoo7/10/2018, 5:59:57 PM2 votes

Man I remember like a month or two ago when wukong mains were popping up on the front page asking for buffs. Saying he's the only champion in the game to never be reworked and that he's been left behind for like 4 years.

Man have the times changed, eh?

The Yetii Rider7/10/2018, 5:38:55 PM2 votes

If you nerf Wukong's scalings, that makes every AD item on him much worse unless he has multiples. It will be a heavy-handed nerf to the typical "build one damage item and then straight tank" fighter style that we've had for years.

Making his early game suck more will keep him from reaching the two item spike you're describing for much longer.

Leto GT7/10/2018, 9:48:12 PM2 votes

It's obviously a jungle nerf. I don't think it's targeted at something else since it's base dmg nerf and not scaling. End goal is to be make his jungle clear less healthy and nerf that mid game. I'm not sure what's the item path as jungler though.

GripaAviara1/31/2019, 9:47:03 PM1 votes

Wu needs to be again a fighter not assasin. His kit is toxic for an assasin. But welp

DarkinPrime7/10/2018, 7:34:21 PM1 votes

I never liked his design. He basically is an assassin who also just happens to have an incredible team fight CC ult with great escape too. Fuck that.

Sire Hippington7/10/2018, 8:04:55 PM1 votes

Exactly, Wu diserves nerfs atm(or his items), but hitting his E basedamage is the wrong spot.

wukong is or atleast was ment to be the teamfighting diver, and now they nerf his only non ult aoe rather than his singletarget busrt that has been pushed over the edge with items like item 3147 and item 3095 . Worse even, the nerf mostly hurts his early laneing and waveclear which already are his weak spots and for a long time were the main reason for why he was barly considered viable. If they want to nerf anything, they should start with reverting his Q compensations-buffs, cause with stormrazor he dosn't really need that compensation for duskblade.

CrestfallenNight7/11/2018, 12:45:52 AM1 votes

More than deserved; Not even enough.

Jakxcombat7/11/2018, 6:00:53 AM1 votes

IMO the nerfs need to go farther. While nimbus does do a absurd amount of damage his Q combined with stormrazor, dusk blade, and ghostblade is the problem since it can basically 2 shot almost everyone

Nanuk Pihoqahiak7/11/2018, 6:57:27 AM1 votes

They need to delete Duskblade for starters. It has broken a lot of characters, and brought him into the spotlight due to his ease of proccing it for absurd burst-opening damage.

Mocking Shout7/13/2018, 2:50:32 PM1 votes

What they need to do is nerf cheese or buff defense. Wukong doesn't need nerfed more than any other Electrocute cheeser out there.

exorcise1/31/2019, 9:29:15 PM1 votes

still waiting on an actual nerf to this champ.. he shouldn't dish out as much dmg as he does with a kit like that while being tanky. somethings gotta give to take.