Boards›Gameplay

Here's my thought's on Champion select, and what I feel is really killing this game!

VoodooSaviorNBK·8/16/2014, 7:43:09 AM·4 votes·983 views

Hi everybody. I'd like to talk today about something that's of grave concern, if you catch me and that's the dominance of the AD/Support bottom lane, 'protect the kog' team compositions and how that affects champion select.

     Ah yes-it feels like yesterday. It was season 1 and the game was fresh, it had lots of problems and one of them was often a lack of an established metagame, the roles weren't as defined as they were now. 
       
   There was still some natural place where everybody in champion select fell, whether it was through threat's of trolling or meaningful communication and teamwork everybody fell in line naturally-sometimes to great success and great failure. In this there was a problem, the lack of the established meta that has continued for 4 years which we all know, and love/hate/don't care yolo. I'm going to ask a question that'll shake up some people, some of these folks being at Riot games and some the community-that question is:What keeps people playing? 

  It's been explained riot's stance goes something like this, league of legends players play because they want to get better, they want not only to get better but to feel their impact, and see it with pretty particle effects. I question this stance, and I'll talk more about that. I feel there's a contradiction here, one that might not have been noticed or must have been glazed over. You guy's at Riot work hard-and selling out the staples center is testament to your hard work just as it is my pleasure to play this awesome game. The future of said game, in my opinion lies in how much/long the developers, not only the developers but the players themselves that stand behind this game and, I'd like to imagine co-developed this game-are satisfied with their experience watching, playing, theorizing, strategizing, counter playing or chatting with their fellows as I am now. 

   So far, though I don't blame Riot entirely there's been a glaring lack of innovation on the part of the professional scene of league of legends. That's arguable, there's been many innovations with champion picks in the protect the kog meta, that is sure but is that enough? 

  I think it isn't enough, I don't think this game will last another 4 seasons doing the same thing on the rift as is done now, role wise. The game has changed many, many times and is ever changing-but the protect the kog meta has codified what a league of legends 5 man should look like. 
    The community itself, even has become stagnant-often champion picks are dictated by what is seen as good competitively, or even more dreaded-overpowered in solo que! I don't think that the confirmation bias that "it's been shown that the present meta is simply the best way to play."  
   That may be true, but let me tell you as a player who watched that CLG EU game at the season 2 world finals, clapping for ward kills doesn't really bring the hype, it doesn't stir up emotions like a sport should, as league arguably is. if you've followed me you may not be surprised at my next assertion, which is all it is.  It's my opinion:The League of Legends Professional scene, in part riot games and the pro's themselves are killing the very game there playing! By stagnating it so. Well then, don't play, don't watch it, don't give Riot your money! Isn't that something we've never heard before, try to come up with something original. This is what I'm challenging the community to do, and they are to some degree. 

   Once again it isn't enough. They continue to follow the finger pointing at the moon while the moon is right there, glaring at them, taunting them! That moon is your capacity to create, that's what we do on league of legends, we shape the game, we create. We make plays! 
  Gnar is a perfect step in this direction I'm speaking of, and Morello straight up saying in the last patch rundown that the champion design team is trying to shake up the very way we think about this game. This is all very exiting, and I'm sure your exited for the future as I am. 
     Or maybe I'm alone, but I refuse to think that and accept that as an excuse. In summary, I think that the reason we play league of legends is to create-we customize our items to the situation, we think strategically and create advantages and snowball them to victory. 
   We create when we communicate, we create vision when we ward, we create peel when we stun. What's the use of getting better, when it's the same darn thing over and over? 
    That's insane! I think it's insane to be limited so, to be so closed minded as the community is. I don't believe Riot is the problem, even and that makes me even more motivated to change all this, by my example which isn't always the best and I hope you can change too, league community.

   I'd like to add also I think that much of champion select's toxicity is  due to lack of many available strategies, opportunities to create our own world! Some folks just hate supporting, or jungling, or something. I saw the starcraft casual community dwindle, the stream views aren't there-league drowned them out. I feel like league of legends is killing itself, and the murderer is stagnation-we're suffocating it and it suffocates us.

Evolve, Innovate, Create. To do otherwise is suicide.

7 Comments

Earl Eulrich8/16/2014, 9:07:14 AM5 votes

Yea well....I think changing pick&ban-phase is unavoidable in the future. There must be more bans to make sure teams cannot relay too heavily on one or two strategies and very small championpools without being afraid of getting banned out. Having 5bans per side would already make a huge difference in variety I think, especially if not all bans are upfront...I think it´s one of the rare things Dota 2 really is doing much better than LoL currently.

Sunfield8/16/2014, 8:39:45 AM1 votes

Im all for meta shifts. Riot is doing a good job balancing around the meta, but they are yet to try something that would shake it up a bit. Recently on boards there has been a discussion about ad support items - much needed in my opinion. Id like to see some tweaks to "buddy system" which is about top laner accompaning his jungler on early levels - maybe a support-ish item that would allow to share the gold?

That being said, I wouldnt hope for a drastic change, but I do believe league has place for some niche tactics

Worgslarg8/16/2014, 12:18:15 PM1 votes

I'm all for working outside the meta in team games, where you actually have friends that know what to do.

In ye old yolo queue, you need to have some idea of what you're gonna face, to be able to counter it. I personally do not find any semblance of fun in getting my face rolled in by a comp that i've never seen before, all for the sake of variety.

It's no fun to suddenly face a cheese lane and lose the game for your team because you simply had no experience against it. While thinking outside the box ought to be rewarded, it quite often feels like a dick move to the team that lost.

ploki1228/16/2014, 4:46:14 PM1 votes

Are you tired? Because your wall of text makes little to no sense... A paragraph break doesn't allow for mindless subject changes. Here's what I see from your post broken by paragraph.

  • There's a problem with Champ select.
  • The problem lies with Bot lane, or rather ADC + Support.
  • Some melancholy for no reasons.
  • More of the "before the meta wasn't as strong".
  • Some weird stance on why people play LoL (as stupid as it may sound, I personally play it because it's fun. Innovating, I know, but keep your panties on).
  • Major lack of innovation in the pro scene (I'll get to this later).
  • LoL has roughly 4 years to go.
  • You consider champion picks stale.
  • LCS is killing LoL (I'll also get to this).
  • People should work toward changes.
  • A massive amount of unrelated sentences that brings to us killing LoL.

Out of those 10 paragraphs, roughly 4 directly talks about the subject and 6 are more about either side notes (1-200 words sidenotes) or melodrama. Next tiem you try to post somethign on the forum, I highly advise you stay cold-hearted and remove everythign that is context, history or personal feelings. Keep it to the fact, and keep it as short as possible. 3 Paragraphs should be enough.

Now, onto the 2 topics I highlighted.

#There's a major lack of innovation in the pro scene

There are a lot of things that happen with professionals, and I believe the 1 thing that happens that make you feel like all teams are centered around their ADC is the fact that generally speaking he's the most useful character come late game and the easiest to kill. Season 1 was all about getting that ADC going in the mid lane, since then you had major pushing advantage. (At this point all ADCs were played very roughly the same, Ashe and Cait were picked a lot because of their range).

I wasn't present at the time, so I don't know the reason, but by the time S2 really started, the meta shifted toward what we have no (ADC bot with support, mage mid). Season 2 was a game of throws basically. It was insanely easy to lose the game once one of your inhibs were down, and it was insanely hard to get that inhib down. The best way to win was to turtle the game and get a safe carry, then win a single team fight with your ADC alive. (Kog'Maw, Caitlyn, Tristana, Corki are major picks for turtleing)

Then, a few changes facilitating initiations came, DFG was stronger, assassins were buffed, neutral gold was buffed. All things that countered the stale playstyles pros were playing. So come S3, mid were mainly assassins (Zed, Fizz, Diana, Kassadin, etc.). The assassins usually focus on the squishies, and who happens to be squishy and have no way to Zhonya out of the damage? The adc and the support. Games were all based around getting to that ADC and/or support and basically teamfighting 5v4 afterward. (btw at this point Corki/Ez were 2 big picks, followed by Cait/Vayne, no Kog'Maws).

S4 kicks in, Riot decides that dieing 100-0 within seconds is not fun (duh) and nerf assassins while giving them utility so that they can't 100-0 as easily, but they still are relevant without erasing someone from existence. A lot of what we're seeing is early aggression and managing to get that mid lane rolling. Come late game, everyone groups around the ADC because he's still the easiest way to win a game post-ace. ADCs are mainly whatever was buffed last.

So even just the structure/playstyle of the meta changed quite a lot in those 4 years, but even more than that, the actual playstyle changed hugely. I haven't seen many 0-2-1-2 (aka 2 junglers no top) before this split. I haven't seen many 3 minutes dragon either. Pick comps like Fnatic's last regular season game was also somethign that you'd never see in another season (Blitz-Elise-midlane-Vayne-Morgana focusing on getting Rekkles that record). Actually, I feel like Protect the Kog'Maw has only just started reappearing after buffs to both him, and supports in solo lanes. You wouldn't see as many Kog'Maws if solo lane Lulu/Alistar wasn't as abusive.

next one in reply.

MaknBacnPancakes8/16/2014, 7:57:41 PM1 votes

1.)Nothing is killing this game right now.. It is a juggernaut with MILLIONS of players.. 2.) Anything that stays stagnant and does not improve or implement changes toward improvement runs the risk of phasing out. Part of the reason why I love this game and why it holds my attention better than any game before it is because of the TLC shown to it by Riot. They are the most proactive company I've seen toward their game, and as long as they stay that way.. The people will stay, the people will play.

Changes, patches, champion/skin releases.. each new release and update brings gripes and pain from some, but cheers and joy from others.. It is all about balance and striking the right chords.

No game or company for that matter in any genre is going to strike 100% perfect balance.. But as long as the company keeps striving for the best balance they can..the game will continue to grow and stay relevant.

MAZZ1M08/17/2014, 1:17:41 AM1 votes

Hmm, I understand where you're coming from but there are some things you need to consider concerning LCS.

No matter how the game changes, LCS players will find the most efficient/optimal strategies. It's literally their job to do so. As such, there will inevitably be meta that forms because they're trying to find the most effective strategies that current stage of the game offers. By definition, optimization is a stagnant thing. Efficiency reaches a wall and cannot overcome itself. That is how the meta is formed. As far as that meta ruining the creativity of the game, it will always be there no matter how many changes are made to the game because it will always be exploitable in terms of finding classic strategies for victory which is the point of competitive play. To maintain the unique roles and niches and character each champ has, it will, without question, offer itself to something LCS players will capitalize on.

As far as I what I think you're getting at in terms of the community following it like mindless sheep who troll people who don't -I completely agree insofar that the statement is true; however, I do not agree that the LCS is the major issue.

While the LCS feeds the behavior, it is not to blame for the behavior as a meta would form without it. Take card games for example; when I was younger I played them competitively, and although no one made a career off it, there was always a meta -in every card game I played. The competitive players trying to win will find reliable builds for their decks that will let them win more than others who don't use that build. Once those players trying to optimize their own types of decks come to a head, certain types are blown away while others stalemate. Those deck types that stalemated each year formed the meta for the next. Innovation obviously came, but those innovations were always built from previous successful builds minus a few random hits out of left field. LoL is much like that. That being the case, there will always be stagnancy despite Riot's attempts to keep innovating. The innovation comes from the individual players, not the game itself -it's incapable of offering that.

To wrap this up: obviously, the biggest difference between this game and a tcg is that this is team based. No one gives a damn about what deck you make. In LoL, people do care when their success is reliant on your productivity. While that is the core of a team-based game, that is an inevitable flaw in it as well. This game is a drug. While it can be fun at times, it fosters hostility as an addict's high is dependent on his teammates' doing well. People who take it too seriously or play this game only for that high rage and kill the game for everyone -that even extends to champion select. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to dodge every time I see an Ashe adc on my team. I've played hundreds of games and I've only ever seen 3 successful Ashes. I remember them well because they surprised me.

A fraction of the community itself is mostly blame, not LCS. I find LCS useful in many regards when I'm looking for new ways to innovate, or looking for a waypoint when trying a new character. At the end of the day, innovation isn't gone and people won't hate if you do well. I main Shyvana for example. Almost every Mobafire guide and high-ranked player on the internet say build Spirit of the Ancient Golem and Blade of the Ruined King. I said "screw that" and looked at alternative ways to make use of her strengths. She just needed attack speed, the BotRK is great if I'm up against tanks, but if I'm not, I can easily make do with any other attack speed item and focus on raw damage to buff her abilities which BotRK doesn't effectively do. Then I saw TheOddOne play Shyvana with a Feral Flare. I spent weeks trying to figure out a good alternative build, but that opened up a whole new world for me. I build that with Ravenous Hydra and Sunfire Cape now. I'm doing very well now.

So, tldr: Not hyping LCS won't stop metas and innovation isn't dead as long as you continue to innovate.