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About Riven. What if I told you...

Halcyn··6 votes·1,930 views

That she was never broken? Riven is probably the hardest champion to play at skill cap and there are only about 6 Riven mains to have reached skill cap with Riven and one of them is faker, and he still messes her up.

The main gripe I hear with her on these boards is that she's resource less. Of course she is. For the longest time top lane meta was heavy tanks, and ranged. You can't spend mana getting to the Mage then fighting him and then getting out while winning the trade nor is it possible for you to kill tanks with mana unless you have insane AD ratios. We could argue the resource thing all day but I just wanted to get that out of the way.

The main thing I wanted to address is her animation cancelling. Let me tell you right now, it is ridiculously hard to do and not mess up. If you're against a riven who is doing it perfectly you're in high diamond + or getting smurfed on. I've smurfed in gold and I've seen the Rivens there, they do not even attempt to animation cancel because they don't know how. If you're not playing against an animation cancelling riven you're playing against a weaker champion. Without cancelling riven is a t3 champion.

Not to be a rankist, but you haven't seen real riven gameplay if you're in silver or gold. The riven mains aren't there, and if you see one he's smurfing. Is riven op when played perfectly ? Absolutely. But no one plays it perfectly, even though they make the occasional perfect play.

Rivens win rate is low now, but she Power spikes harder than ever. I can be 0-3 but when I get my ghostblade if I play well I can still 1v1.

She's balanced around skill, and that's all she's balanced around. If you're losing to her and you're in low ELO you're getting outplayed by a riven who can't animation cancel which is not something you should be admitting to.

If you need help playing against or as riven I suggest you head over to /r/rivenmains

39 Comments

Stekeltje5 votes

The thing I've noticed on these boards is, people don't even care what kind of arguments you're telling them. Whenever they hear Riven, 90% of them automatically already becomes negative about the entire post no matter how valid your arguments may be.

Unfortunately this happens with many other topics. It's a sad thing really.

Palmeiras SerieB5 votes

Give up, NA Boards is full of morons and rednecks.

Flaherty4 votes

I agree that she isn't broken, she's actually very difficult to master

GreeNz2 votes

{quoted}

I agree that she isn't broken, she's actually very difficult to master

Yeah, I agree completely. I'm kind of shy to start playing her, because I've seen how difficult she is to play fluidly. But I still give credit where credit is due, and my respects go out to those who claim to be Riven mains. Respect.

Maybe today I will get around to playing her, or over the holidays. I really love her 'Redeemed' skin. :)Riven

LynXerf4 votes

Riven was never broken, just a lot of people loved complaining about her. Sure she has loads of mobility and is resourceless, but her kit contains plenty of counter play. It's easy to bait her all-in if you have an escape or root/stun. It's easy to counter on her if she likes to spam her Q all the time - the moment this is on CD she suddenly has no damage.

Posui Gart4 votes

About Ryze. What if I told you... That he was never broken? Ryze is probably the hardest champion to play at skill cap and there are only about 6 Ryze mains to have reached skill cap with Ryze and one of them is faker, and he still messes him up. ... So should we unnerf Ryze now?

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wtwTyObx,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2015-11-18T17:53:59.334+0000)

About Ryze. What if I told you... That he was never broken? Ryze is probably the hardest champion to play at skill cap and there are only about 6 Ryze mains to have reached skill cap with Ryze and one of them is faker, and he still messes him up. ... So should we unnerf Ryze now?

What if I told you,upon release rek'sai or release rengar weren't broken. They were hardest champions to play and to reach their full potential. Even faker messes up with them. Let's unrework rengar and in nerf rek'sai now?

morris11 votes

{quoted}

What if I told you,upon release rek'sai or release rengar weren't broken. They were hardest champions to play and to reach their full potential. Even faker messes up with them. Let's unrework rengar and in nerf rek'sai now?

XinZhao

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moraru Maurice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wtwTyObx,comment-id=000e00000000,timestamp=2015-11-18T18:57:33.642+0000)

XinZhao

TwistedFate

Mael bro3 votes

That she was never broken? Riven is probably the hardest champion to play at skill cap and there are only about 6 Riven

I stopped reading right there. Riven was never broken? Riven was overnerfed as it is, her E duration got decreased, Q scaling reducutcion and base damage got reduced by like 60. But to say she was never broken? The amount of qq that boards has for current Riven is nothing compared to the qq she recieved back in S2 and S3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxDsZ45tbpQ) The glorious days of cancer Riven at her finest. No comments are necessary.

NemeBro2 votes

A champion being difficult to master has nothing to do with whether or not they are broken.

I don't give a fuck about Riven, but your premise is flawed from the start.

Flaherty1 votes

It absolutely does. I champion that is stupidly strong in the hands of everyone the first time they play them is broken. If you need to be extremely skilled to perform well with a champion they aren't broken

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

It absolutely does. I champion that is stupidly strong in the hands of everyone the first time they play them is broken. If you need to be extremely skilled to perform well with a champion they aren't broken

First of all, broken and overpowered are not synonymous. A champion can be overtuned but still have a healthy kit.

Second of all, a champion being low skill floor or cap doesn't make them broken. A champion that is "stupidly strong" in the hands of someone new to the champ is indeed overpowered, but so is a champion that is "stupidly strong" in the hands of a veteran of the champ. Stupidly strong as in, much stronger than other champs; they have more power. Hence, "overpowered".

Halcyn1 votes

That is how riot balances some champions. Namely yasuo zed lee sin and riven. They said if the champ was at 50% win rate with inexperienced played that they'd need nerfs.

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

That is how riot balances some champions. Namely yasuo zed lee sin and riven. They said if the champ was at 50% win rate with inexperienced played that they'd need nerfs.

Sure, and I agree.

But that doesn't mean that when played by a veteran main of the champion that they should be inherently stronger than other champions played by just as experienced players.

Facy2 votes

If shes so hard o master and hard to play decent and Riot is balancing around the best players then Riven should have a winrate of not higher then 25% and when this is not the case its a clear indicator for her being overpowerd and needs hard nerfing.

All your arguements has only 1 outcome which is that Riven in her current state is behind believe broken.

Good job pointing out how overpowerd Riven actually is that even if u play her to 30% u can win your lane cuz her numbers and mobility is way too high and covers up all missplay u do with her.

I agree with u that Riven is still broken as fuck.

Halcyn1 votes

Let me break this down for you. Because I don't know what your ELO is but you seem to need this in simpler terms. If you're not in high diamond + you've never played against Riven. You've played against the basics of the champion and if you lost its because you got outplayed or are bad. She is only op if you master her which nearly no one has done .

Vekkna1 votes

You've played against the basics of the champion and if you lost its because you got outplayed or are bad. She is only op if you master her which nearly no one has done .

This is just a bunch of opinions stated as fact. I could do the exact same thing in reverse. Like this: "You've played against the basics of the champion, and if you lost its because Riven's strong enough that a bad player still does well. She is only OP once you're halfway decent at canceling, she has a virtually limitless power ceiling, and the gap between her skill floor and cap is so huge that you never really know what you're dealing with."

Facy2 votes

Yes i 100% agree that she needs a lot more nerfing. Balance should be around the maximum possible u can do with a champ and Riven as u said is indeed OP as fuck if u know what u do and therefore really does needs some more nerfs.

good that we agree, dont know why people downvote u cuz normally ''nerf Riven'' threads get upvoted and u gave good explaination of how broken she actually still is.

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

She is only op if you master her

Then she needs nerfs or a rework. Period.

A champion is generally and should be balanced around their skill cap. Azir has a fucking awful win rate at any given period in time, but that's okay because he's a very difficult to play champion. Riven's own win rate is usually pretty good (not right now though, Jesus, lol), but that has a lot to do with her players being unusually experienced with the champion on average (like a third of her playerbase has 125+ games), but if what you're saying is true (that Riven is inherently overpowered as a champion, but it takes a lot of skill to unlock that power), then she needs something to fix her, because that's a problem with balance.

Not that I'm saying Riven is OP if you master her. You are. But your logic and reality do not correlate.

Weathered2 votes

The changes were that skilled riven players would remain doing well, but unskilled bandwagon players who couldnt play riven werent able to roflstomp low elo. It was a skill center nerf, not a direct nerf. It now takes more skill to play her, meaning high elo players were not affected.

Boulderox2 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2RzjAHfG4A

enough said...

riven is a braindead champ to pick up and play She has one of the highest skillcaps however as well

Problem i always find is the counter to riven is the riven themselves... reguardless of champion, if they are good, you cannot win no matter what laning against her.

Once again proving resourceless CHAMPS DON'T DESERVE SHIELDS Yasuo Riven http://dongeronimopodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/baby.jpg

Halcyn2 votes

If you get a riven main and a renekton main and put them 1v1 top if they have the same skill the renekton will always win, every time.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

{quoted}

If you get a riven main and a renekton main and put them 1v1 top if they have the same skill the renekton will always win, every time.

True,Renekton has bigger advantage. But if you put an unskilled riven against a decent Renekton player,Riven has the advantage. Basicly goes like this Unskilled Riven>Unskilled opponent Unskilled Riven>Decent Opponent. Unskilled Riven<Opponent Main Decent Riven<Opponent Main Riven Main =Opponent Main.

insaiyanbacca2 votes

she isnt broken, she's just a massive pain to deal with.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

Riven is easy both to learn and to master. But she isnt broken,you are right(atleast in this past season) Just toxic and unhealthy kit

Halcyn2 votes

If you say she's easy to master you're a salty low ELO player. I'd guess silver without checking. Your opinion still matters but you just are talking out of your knowledgeable area

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

{quoted}

If you say she's easy to master you're a salty low ELO player. I'd guess silver without checking. Your opinion still matters but you just are talking out of your knowledgeable area

Almost hit Diamond this season. Currently plat 3,and only laddering up again. Yes,Riven is both easy to play and to master.

Halcyn2 votes

Lol. I just heard plat 3 and master in the same sentence.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

{quoted}

Lol. I just heard plat 3 and master in the same sentence.

Yup,you heard it(saw it). Don't mess up with skill level,since Diamond 5 players especially with 0 LP and about to drop like you,or particularly anyone Below diamond 1-2,have very little difference from Platinum,and in some cases even Gold.

The Loveless1 votes

It's not really about being broken. She's easy to snowball with and has tons of escapes, hard cc in an aoe and a shield. She's really oppressive with life steal.

UberAffe1 votes

My biggest problem with your argument is that you seem to be ignoring the fact that as you face riven's in lower and lower elo's the other players are also in lower and lower elo's.

A Riven who can't animation cancel in diamond is shit. Ok. That says nothing about a riven in lower elo who can't animation cancel.

Low Elo simply doesn't have the inbuilt decision making to know the perfect time to go in and there certainly is no team coordination. Add on rivens fairly low skill floor and you get a champion that feels broken in low elo.

I say low skill floor because of how forgiving her kit is. Even if you are playing her for the first time and you make tons of mistakes, odds are you will be able to survive because you have so much low cd mobility.

Halcyn2 votes

I'm saying if u aren't in diamond every riven you've played against is shit and you need to get good.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

{quoted}

I'm saying if u aren't in diamond every riven you've played against is shit and you need to get good.

Pathetic comment and pathetic person revolving around only ELO differences. Riven's are good and can stomp without any skill at any ELO,and there is little difference between low diamond high gold. Guess what? Just like you consider any ELO below diamond Shit,I consider ANY ELO above high gold and below diamond 1 exactly the same. Some people like you,Riven players,Can't deal with the fact that riven is hilariously easy to play and well with,yes,even is Platinium. No champion at this game is hard to play anyway,yes there are differences in each champion's play style and abilities,but it's not gigantic,and riven is fairy Medium to master. Not as easy as Annie,Vayne and garen,but nowhere close to hard. It's all amout certain Roles and gameplay,currently,Early game teams and Wombo combo teams are top picks.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Riven was never broken she is op yes but not broken, now that she lost LW she's balanced but slightly underwhelming since players don't build enough AD to make use of deathfire touch unless they want to go glass cannon which doesn't work without the squishy killing lw(I still love the lw change but I have 2 item suggestions for assassins/ad poke(varus/jayce/urgot)

Make 2 new armor penetration items.

Make it so it has 10 flat armor pene, a unique passive that gives a large armor penetration stat(% or flat) that lowers every second in combat with an enemy champion starting from 2 seconds, The penetration falls down to 0 after 5 seconds or 6 basic attacks, 3 for ranged, leaving only the 10 flat armor pene reset on a kill/assist, or after 15 seconds of not being in combat

Make it so it has 10 flat armor pene, a unique passive that gives an even larger than the other version armor penetration stat on only non-DoT abilities (% or flat) that lowers every hit of a non-DoT ability (Goes down to 0 after 7 hits of a non-DoT ability leaving only the 10 armor pene) and resets on kill/assist or after 15 seconds of not being in combat

GhastlyGhoulMan1 votes

Uhh... Her entire storyline is about being broken. Her sword is broken, heck she even has a move called "Broken Wings"! If that's not a broken champ then I dunno what is.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

Oh would you look at the clock,it's time to check Op's profile; http://s9.postimg.org/qjdyti78v/image.jpg http://s11.postimg.org/lcqk3sj83/image.jpg http://s7.postimg.org/8w0uk092j/image.jpg Don't judge anyone by their rank,if you say every riven below diamond is shiet,Surprise,you are right but only if she's below Diamond 1,and that includes you.

J Eevo1 votes

It'd be fine if she was high skillcap high reward and required a lot of experience to play sucesfully...

Terrible when untrained and great when trained is someone like Azir though, Riven however has a LOW skilfloor and can actually be quite sucesfull even if you just picked her up and don't know how to animation cancel, and it only goes up from there.

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