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Patch 7.21 - Udyr shouldn't be a juggernaut

the Rìver King··5 votes·568 views

Alright Riot, let's take it from the top. 2 years ago, you unveiled the concept of juggernauts and did a lot of things that people didn't really agree with. Skarner's still reeling from the fallout and Mordekaiser is in a weird place, mostly from the application of minigames in the form of crystal spires and everything shoved into Mordekaiser's kit, being too much to mention here. This post isn't about either of them, though. I made this post to remind those interested what a juggernaut was supposed to be, and why Udyr shouldn't be one.

Let's start off with what a juggernaut is. This is Riot's Gameplay Update approximately 2 years ago. https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/gameplay-update-juggernauts Let's pay attention to one critical piece of information that Riot put way at the front.

> When you think brute force, these champions should come to mind: powerful, durable, immobile and melee.

Let's examine Udyr under those parameters.

  1. Powerful? Third highest base attack damage in the game at level 18 (143.3), so yes. *small side note, with Sterakk's Gauge Udyr's AD is raised to 214.5, letting him do 429 damage every Trinity Force proc on top of being able to constantly make use of spellblade (1.5 sec cooldown). This is without any other items.
  2. Durable? Fifth highest base health with a shield on a 6 second cooldown (barring reduction), so yes.
  3. Melee? Obviously.
  4. Immobile? BEARTURTLEBEARTURTLEBEARTURTLE. Seriously, if I won a game for every Udyr I saw outrunning an entire enemy team through their own base or rocketing out of the fog of war to eviscerate a squishy champion in a teamfight, I'd be in Challenger by now. On a serious note, a ghost effect by itself (with minion-block being such a problem now) accompanied by a 30% movement speed boost is very, very strong and doesn't belong on a juggernaut.

3/4 isn't a bad mark, but that same count means that Udyr is by design not a juggernaut. He's a mostly-naut. What I'm saying here is if Riot decides to make Udyr a juggernaut with as much mobility as he has right now, things are going to get crazy. Given how weak turrets are now and how easily Udyr could OPEN THE GATES a few seasons ago, I can definitely foresee constant towers falling without minion assistance when Udyr is involved.

With all the information presented, it is my personal stance that Riot should not start giving Udyr all the benefits of being a juggernaut without any of the drawbacks. Perhaps have Bear Stance's movement speed gated by a ramp up time similar to Skarner's Crystalline Exoskeleton, and reduce Udyr's ability to abuse the Sterakk's+Trinity combo?

5 Comments

redniwediS2 votes

When they say immobile they mean no dashes or blinks or jumps. That's the entire reason Garen was allowed to keep his movement speed boost (even though they nerfed his speed...) and the reason why other champions that were not directly updated during the Juggernaut update are considered Juggernauts.

Raw speed, according to the definition used during the Juggernaut update, is not considered mobility.

the Rìver King2 votes

You make a fair point. I can only hope that if Udyr keeps going down the Juggernaut route they do the same thing to him as they did to Garen. Movement speed nerfs, like you said.

This also raises a good question. How much movement speed is too much?

Radiant Seraph1 votes

Hecarim/Bloodseeker

redniwediS1 votes

The Garen movement speed nerfs are not the best example (champion nerfed for an item, then has other items nerfed that nerf him more) but it your question all depends on what a champion's niche is. Garen is a front line champion with moderate dueling capabilities, and as such he is decently good at both split pushing and team fighting, but excels at neither.

I would put Udyr fully in the split pushing/hunting for picks category. He can teamfight, but really isn't the best at it. He would have more of his power budget into things that assist him at what he is good at, which means he can be super fast. His speed isn't really a problem by itself, but when looking at his damage in small fights and ability to take objectives relatively quickly something may have to give. I'd say the question is less about how much movement speed is too much (Hecarim and Rammus come to mind) and more about what downsides should a super fast champion have to balance it out.

the Rìver King1 votes

Another very valid point. I feel that his overwhelming speed in addition to the Sterakk's+Trinity combo abuse he can do would be just too much. To bring it back to your post, it doesn't look like Udyr is going to have any downsides in the future, aside from being melee only. Big damage, big durability, big speed all mix together to make an absolute wrecking ball of a champion that's going to be really frustrating to play against.

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