Open Discussion on Garen - Improvements, Enhancements, Updates, & Reworks

OmegasisX·4/22/2018, 3:59:00 AM·8 votes·8,000 views
Much Needed Garen Update / Mini Rework

Hello to everyone concerned with the current condition and state of the Might of Demacia,

My name is OmegasisX and I have been playing League of Legends for a couple years now. I started off not knowing much about the game, nor its characters, but was inspired to play because of one of my best friends. I am currently in Gold 4 (Solo/Duo) & Gold 5 (Flex 5v5), but, through general game and champion knowledge, have the ability to consistently compete (and do well) against high gold, plat, & sometimes even diamond players (depending on which ranked system is queued up).

As I have seen many others players on these forums describe their distaste of the way Riot has handled treating one of their most beloved (or not) champions in League of Legends, and seeing how that champion has actually become my best champion to play with competitively (over half a million mastery points with a near 50% win rate - lower elo games depend on how well your other teammates can do or not) I wanted to bring a positive change to his playstyle as well as professional playability.

As many of us know, Garen suffers from a few major issues:

  1. His lack of a clear engage makes his teamfighting relevance not very strong:

At best, what Garen has to offer is armor shred, damage, a 1-use silence on a single target for 1.5 seconds, & a finisher. That's it. He has no way to remove targets physically from the vicinity, nor does he have anyway of reliably getting to the backline to remove priority targets. If Garen builds standard Black Cleaver tank, he relies on his teammates to do well to carry teamfights and win games.

  1. His lack of mobility makes him easily kitable, without much counterplay:

As Riot has said before, Garen will always be a champion that can be kited. I'm not saying he shouldn't. But what I am saying is that he should be able to face off against those kiters with some consistency.

Garen is a melee champ. That means there will always be inherent disadvantages for him against ranged matchups and champions. But other champions, like Riven & Yasuo, have ways to get close to ranged champions to be able to fight against them. Garen has no such ability. Therefore, in order for him to be on par with basic fighting principles in League, he needs to have his engage mechanic looked at (and possibly reworked).

  1. His early level & laning phase presence is weak. Really weak.

We all know Garen's passive and how it works. We know (as champs playing against him) that we need to keep it off. And we know (as people playing as him) that even if it is on, it's not very strong (at least in the early levels). This presents the inherent issue imbedded in the way his passive is structured - Garen is weak in the beginning of the game. Where other champs, like Akali, can heal themselves all the way back to full health with a few auto attacks, Garen has to wait quite a while for his healing to get him there, AND he has to wait quite a while for it to come back on if it's turned off. That being said, his passive IS much stronger in the later stages of the game, but sometimes he isn't able to do well enough to get there properly. With this in mind, it would make sense to enhance his early level SUSTAIN capabilities so that he can remain relevant during the early stages of the game without being considered OP.

I personally have created a list of potential changes that could be considered by those in charge of champion reworks and "maintenance" to enhance his teamfighting relevance as well as his 1v1 capabilities (the link in this article):

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/mv6uwJJE-much-needed-garen-update-mini-rework

Any feedback considering these changes (either positive or negative) would be greatly appreciated, and please feel free to leave suggestions of your own, as the true intention of this post is to have the voices of the Garen fans and players be heard by Riot so that appropriate steps can be taken to improve and enhance the champion we know can be much better.

Thanks for reading this far and for listening. Maybe together we really can get Riot to hear us this time.

OmegasisX Garen

45 Comments

redniwediS4/22/2018, 4:32:50 AM7 votes

Personally, I would just like to see Garen's old movement speed nerfs reverted. In patch 5.17 he had his base movement speed reduced by 5, and his Q speed boost cut down by 5%. This was due to the recent addition of Dead Man's Plate. A little while later the Boots of Swiftness nerf happened and hit his most used boots by 5ms.

Garen could use some work, but a small change like this could definitely hold him over for a while. I can deal with the weak early game, early end to the lane phase, and rapid rotations that quickly leave you outnumbered, but when I dedicate half of my item slots to movement speed and get successfully chased down by someone who only has one item for it things can be a little frustrating to say the least.

Also, if you're interested in Garen focused talk I suggest checking out the Garen Mains subreddit. You can get some good high elo opinions on Garen, his matchups (for and against), and on any ideas for changes that you have.

(I copy/pasted this from the mostly empty thread you deleted. Didn't get a chance to post it, but wrote this all out before the thread got deleted, so I'll cover the points you made in this one next.)

  1. His lack of a clear engage makes his teamfighting relevance not very strong:

Garen has never been a fantastic team fighter. He has AoE, can nuke down a target, and has that all important silence, but those are all things that only help with a team fight. These abilities simply do not dictate the fight like the abilities of strong team fighters do.

Garen is at his best when in small fights, where picking off a single target can drastically turn the fight. This puts him in the split pushing/duelist category, even though he is worse at both than straight up split pushing champions and duelists. I'm honestly fine with this, if only because it has always been this way. Garen is mediocre at all of this, including team fighting, but as a result can do all of them decently. I personally enjoy the flexibility rather than being forced down one path.

  1. His lack of mobility makes him easily kitable, without much counterplay:

I think I touched on this enough with my original attempted post, but I will add that this is a problem all Juggernauts are dealing with, not just Garen, so it's honestly part of a larger conversation that needs to take place.

  1. His early level & laning phase presence is weak. Really weak.

Before the Juggernaut update happened Garen had a pretty decent early game and a fantastic mid game. He wasn't a match for the early game titans of the time, but could hold his own against other mid game champions and would put late game champions into the dirt. If you didn't play him properly he would fall off late game, but most mains of him could make due.

The Juggernaut update shifted a fair amount of his early game power into his late game, and during season 5 it worked pretty darn well. That said we're three seasons into the future from then, and with all the other changes that have happened Garen's late game power is back to pre-Juggernaut levels. This wouldn't really be a problem, we managed before that update just fine, but Garen's early game is still comparatively weak. Either his early game needs to return to pre-Juggernaut levels as well, or that late game power he is supposed to have needs to be fixed, because as it stands Garen is, overall, weak in a lot of situations where he shouldn't be.

That's not to say he can't be played effectively, he just can't be played as if he has a strong early game. Unless you completely outclass your lane opponent you have to give up level 2 advantage, and play passively and wait for your opponent to make mistakes. Garen has little to no mechanical skill requirement, so you have to fully plan around macro play. For most people this won't be worth it, as the effort to make Garen work as you go up in player skill does not match the reward you get for playing him.

MarineRevenge4/22/2018, 9:27:23 AM5 votes

increase his Dmg per level to 5 Buff his E by Adding %hp Dmg per Tick Remove Q cast time, increase silence duration from 1.5 to 2 Sec Make his passive useful in the laning phase (something like Maokai's or Akali's passive) Make his AA deal % hp Dmg so he doesn't become useless after burning his CDs Reward Garen for killing the villian (extra gold or armor/magic resist) [garen-swing]

fabfan4/22/2018, 9:57:47 AM3 votes

In my opinion Garen need some damage buff on this E (base damage, AD ratio or both) and an in-fight sustain mechanic, i don't know why every juggernauts (nasus, illaoi, darius, mordekaiser, skarner, poppy etc) got healing/shield to stay alive and Garen got nothing (this W is not strong enough to survive because CC chain and kiting).

Rework/Remove this vilain mecanic (to random and it's only usefull on a tank with magic resistance....).

Maybe a buff on this Q for catch range champion (not to much because kiting must be his weakness but at the moment he can't catch anyone) and some improvement like Q animation scale with attack speed.

Personally, I would just like to see Garen's old movement speed nerfs reverted.

God yes i want that too.

And of course a large bug fix, I've got a few here:

-Q doesn't work on Jhin's/Nidalee's traps and Teemo's shroom.

-Q proc to early energized item and Statik shiv/FleetWork cannot crit (even if you got 100% Crit chance).

-E stop all Garen movement when it's finished or canceled.

-Ult get canceled when the enemy get out of Garen's vision/range even if he is in mid-animation

Riot 4.18 patch: “Fixed a bug where Demacian Justice would cancel if Garen lost sight of his target.”

Me: I think they are trolling Garen mains....

PS: Sorry for my English

CrazFight 4/22/2018, 5:47:30 PM1 votes

I think he is fine the way he is, maybe some small buffs is all that’s needed.

SwiftKitten884/22/2018, 5:48:16 PM1 votes

ok the first argument is that he is bad in teamfights. umm ok... not every champ can teamfight. and garen is a hel of a lot better in them than a bunch of others soo yeah

2nd argument is thst he is easily kiteable...

that is just flat out bullshit

garen is agurmable the hardest melee champ in the game to kite

CC is pertty much illrevent vs him so unless you have multiple dashes that you can use BEFORE he can get in range.. you cant really use any form of CC to kit him.

once he reaches you.. you cant even use dashes Or any kind of spell let alone CC.

so right off ther bad your first argument is irrelevant..

your 2nd argument is flat out bullshit. i cant comment on the third one as i wold have to face him in lane to do so and havent played top since season 4.

but

garen does NOT need buffs... garen is actaully VERY balanced right now.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/garen/all

that is a balanced champ.

there.. you guys are starting toi become almost as bad as the Shaco players.

50% WINRATE RATE IN EVERY ELO DOES NOT NEED A BUFF

chipndip14/22/2018, 6:19:45 PM1 votes

Don't waste your type. Some champs, like Garen, have too many die hards in the fan base that want to force him to be as he is now. Riot won't change him because they want to avoid people that'll get mad if they change "muh simple champs", but there's super little that can be done to make him a decent champion in this game anymore. It's the reason I stopped making Sona threads.

Triumphant Glory4/22/2018, 6:28:40 PM1 votes

I saw this idea somewhere and i liked it. What if after 4 spins ,Garen could choose to either make his Ult true damage( same application as his current shred, or use Q to silence and disarm or apply a stun of like 1.5 second or something ? It would force Garen to make decision, either run at enemy with Q, silence them , spin on them 4 time and make the ultimate deal true damage, or E , press Q , spin 4 time and finish with a stun, a few basic attack in between with magic damage ult. It would make some creative combo . We could remove the shred if the true damage /stun is too much but i beleive it could stay.

fckinshrimp5/12/2018, 7:19:01 PM1 votes

Nerf that brainless cancer.

Vlada Cut5/12/2018, 7:36:45 PM1 votes

Just want to change something in his kit that will let him use Aftershock or chnge his W around it. That would benefit with taking kiting dmg a lot easier. Or make a use of his manaless state, something.... lore related to his magic absorbting armor.

Critmaster Garen5/23/2018, 11:25:54 AM1 votes

i dont mind as terrible of an early game as nasus, if he would scale into mid/lategame like nasus.

imo he scales stronger into lategame than he used to. especially with the appropriate runes. but its still not quite enough.

before they do anything else with his kit, id want them to do some tweaks to his animations, shorten the timer on his spin cancel, remove the lockout from being able to cast his w during his q animation, make his q animation speed scale up with champion level, improve the targeting mechanism on villainy.

there is so much they could do already with his existing kit, that would just make him less clunky to play, without even changing anything major about his mechanics.

i remember when the addition and removal of Darius pull during enemy dashes caused 4% winrate rises and drops for him. making a champion kit more reliable and fluent by improving minor mechanics and animations can already make a massive difference to his competitive viability.

i think the most potential fo improvement in terms of reworking ability mechanics is currently still in his passive. if they could make it more versatile to be useful to be able to stay in lane, but also add sustain through extended fights like Volibear passive, then with the new atmas hed probably do a lot better in extended engagement.

Critmaster Garen5/23/2018, 11:32:34 AM1 votes

honestly, they should just work grasp of the undying somehow into garens kit, and make it useful for him in and out of combat.

if he could just get a 2% max health damage and heal proc on auto attacks every 3 seconds that he could use on minions, it would basically have a similar effect to his current passive, while being useful in combat with enemy champions.

convert the damage into true damage against villains, and replace it with the current 1% max health true damage on every auto attack, and call it a day.

how about this?

incease his base health regeneration slightly.

** perseverance**

garens next auto attack against enemy champions deals 2% of his max health in physical damage and heals him for 4% of his missing health (3 second cooldown).

takedowns on minions and monsters trigger the heal and reset the cooldown.

if youre forced to play passive in lane, you sustain by lasthitting minions.

if youre playing aggressive, you can sustain through longer fights by smacking people in the face.

it would be a more versatile approach to garens passive. the downside is, no regeneration when not going for minions.