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My Thoughts on Balancing Jhin to be a better Champion.

Jhín·2/18/2019, 10:42:29 PM·6 votes·3,827 views

Hello Summoners,

I'm writing this today because I want to share my thoughts and concerns about Jhin and how he is a Champion that is too reliant on Patches and Items and how he can be buffed so this could become not such a large of an issue. I have been playing Jhin exclusively since his release on the PBE and instantly fell in love and knew that I would not be playing any other Champion the same way. I have over 2 Million points on him across all my accounts and have a Career in QA/Design in the Video Game Industry, so in terms of Champion/Design knowledge I feel like I am qualified to talk about how he can be changed in a way that is healthy for the Game and more importantly, healthy for Jhin. My goal here is to create a discussion (preferably with Riot themselves) about way to change Jhin so that he is more reliable on a Patch by Patch basis and has less focus on the Items in the game being strong which generally makes Jhin strong (I.E. The “Meta”). I believe that ultimately entails changes to his Kits EFFECTS and not so much meaningless Stat or Damage Number increases (except for one Stat that I will get into later). I am seeing many Virtuoso complaining about the state of Jhin and unfourjhinately their voice is not being heard and it saddens me as I share some of their concerns and wish that someone would speak out about it. That does not seem to be happening so I will take it upon myself to speak for them and get Jhin into a spot where he can perform his deathly acts of beauty to all Runeterra. So, Let the Curtain Rise!

In this discussion I will be going through each Ability and explaining how it can be changed in a way that can more reliably dish out damage and allow Jhin to compete with other Champions that reside in the Bot Lane, but not in a way that will make the Champion overtly stronger than all others.

Let's start with his Passive: Whisper

  • I would consider this to be one of the most important changes to his Kit in order to make him better as a Champion and less reliant on Patches and Items. If no other change is accepted and discussed, I want at least this change to be seriously considered.
  • I believe that Jhin absolutely needs to have his Attack Speed Growth Increased. Jhin currently starts the Game with 0.625 Attack Speed and scales up to 0.943 at Level 18.
  • What I am proposing is increasing the Growth of the Attack Speed from Level 1-18. Still starting at 0.625, but at Level 18 his max Attack Speed would come out to 1.234.
  • To compensate for this increase in Attack Speed, I recommend lowering his Attack Damage Conversion on Whisper (Passive), and adding in the increased amount of Critical Strikes able to be achieved, it should still be a net positive in DPS.
  • After many tests on the Practice Tool with other Champions using a similar Attack Speed, it still feels slow to their standards, but it would feel amazing for Jhin and allow him to compete in duels, skirmishes, and teamfights much more efficiently. I do not believe this amount of Attack Speed is too much for Jhin.
  • Most Games do not reach the Level 18 point anyway, so this will still not be achievable in some games, but the Levels prior will give him a fighting chance.
  • I would argue the most important reason to make this change is it would allow Jhin to make more use of the extremely RNG reliant Critical Strike system that has been put back into place due to the 9.3 Crit Item changes.
  • After many Ranked Games using these new items, it feels very bad not having the Attack Speed to hopefully get a Crit faster than a Jinx can Minigun Form out 5 Crits in the time it takes to dole out 4 Shots from Whisper using just an Infinity Edge. He will be effectively attacking more often, allowing him to Crit more often as well, which makes him more reliable to changes in items as just being able to attack slightly more without Crits is still a DPS positive.

Q: Dancing Grenade

  • This is an Ability that lacks a fundamental effect that would overall positively influence his DPS and Waveclear capabilities.
  • What I am suggesting is that when Jhin casts Dancing Grenade (Q), regardless of enemies in the surrounding area, it will bounce 4 times.
  • For example, in an isolated 2v1 Bot Lane matchup where Jhin's Support is roaming and the enemy team engages on him with no enemy minions around, he will cast Dancing Grenade (Q) and the Grenade will bounce between both Champions 4 times (2 times each). No extra damage is added as the grenade hasn't killed a unit, but he is able to more efficiently fight and defend himself when being attacked. Only when every unit dies in the vicinity of the Dancing Grenade will it vanish from existence as it should.
  • If there is 1 enemy, it will bounce a single time and disappear.
  • I also propose that the Dancing Grenade (Q) will prioritize Marked Champions and consume the Mark. While still Marking enemies that were not already Marked for future use with W and my proposed Ultimate.

W: Deadly Flourish

  • I find this Ability overall to be a decent Ability and does not need to be changed much at all, but I have a few suggestions in making this Ability flow better with his Kit.
  • Firstly, Deadly Flourish (W) has a confusing hitbox and its clarity around if it will hit or not is not exactly clear especially to someone who does not play a lot of Jhin and is aware of the exact hitbox.
  • On the immediate cast of the Ability, the hitbox is exactly as it should be. Matching exactly to where and how it will snare an enemy. However, it then thins out during the cast animation then confusing the caster as to where exactly the hit box starts and where the hitbox ends.
  • I believe there should be a constant line of where the skillshot is going to hit and the animation does not thin out in any way.
  • Secondly, I believe that Deadly Flourish needs to both MARK and consume the Marks of people affected by Caught Out.
  • This is in conjunction with my proposed Dancing Grenade (Q) prioritization as well as my Ultimate change that I will talk about shortly.

E: Captive Audience

  • I have two possible ways to change this Ability, however both involve the removal of the Beauty in Death Passive that is currently on the Ability.
  • I strongly believe that this Passive is too niche and does nothing for Jhin in terms of fighting people straight out and it relies too heavily on the enemy team making a mistake rather than the skill of the Jhin player.
  1. My first idea was to make it so that Captive Audience (E) only stores 1 charge, however the Recharge Rate is lowered (For the record this is my preferred change).
  • An infinite number of Traps can still be placed.
  • The Traps constantly reapply the Caught Out Passive in order to make use of the proposed Dancing Grenade (Q) change and provides an incentive to Trap under him so he is able to cast Dancing Grenade (Q) inside of a minion Wave and the Grenade will keep bouncing back to the Marked Target.
  1. My second idea is giving Jhin 4 Traps at Ability Level 1. (Alternatively, he could have a scaling Trap number such as 1-4 Traps from Ability Level 1-5).
  • Only a Maximum of 4 Traps can be stored and placed on the Map at a time.
  • The Slow is increased to 50%. The Damage Scaling can be increased to 140% AD.
  • Traps stay on the Map for a longer duration.
  • The Constant application of the Caught Out Passive still applies on these Traps as well.

R: Curtain Call

  • This Ability is bread and butter and does not need any crazy changes as it is unique to Jhin and has many uses. However, there are some changes that I want to suggest allowing Curtain Call (R) to be more useful in his overall Kit and for Champion flow throughout the Game.
  • I believe that the Slow from hitting each shot should be removed entirely and instead replaced with the ability to Proc the Caught Out Passive applied to enemies from the Dancing Grenade (Q), Deadly Flourish (W), Captive Audience (E), and Ally damage.
  • If hitting an enemy that has no mark currently on them, it will instead Mark that enemy and then the next Shot would then Root them again if he happens to cast Curtain Call in isolation.
  • Marks can be constantly Procced on the same enemy if firing upon someone who is being damage by an Ally or Captive Audience (E).
  • Root duration is still only increased with the Ability Level of Deadly Flourish (W).
  • An Alternative to this is Marked enemies who are struck by a Bullet from Curtain Call (R) will be greatly Slowed or Slowed for a longer Duration.

So that really sums up most of my thoughts on how you can balance Jhin to be a better Champion and allow him to compete with other Bot Lane picks on a Patch by Patch basis. I truly believe that he is a Champion who is negatively (and positively) affected by Patch Changes the most out of the Marksman Class and that shouldn't be the case. He should be viable based off of the Player Skill in using the Champion's Kit effectively and Items should only assist in that regard. If none of these changes work for the Game or make Jhin completely busted (or garbage), I ask that you, please, PLEASE, just consider giving Jhin more Attack Speed Growth so he can do more in each Game that he is picked in.

If anyone else has any suggestions for how Riot can balance Jhin to make him less dependent on the Meta, please leave a comment. I really want to see what everyone else thinks about this topic and also how many people agree or disagree with me. Also, please refute my ideas as well, I want this to be a discussion about what is best for Jhin as a Champion going forward. So, if you feel an idea I had would never work in Today's League of Legends, please tell me, but don't forget to explain your reasoning.

[TL;DR] I want Jhin to have an Attack Speed Growth of 0.625 - 1.234.

Thank you all for reading. I had to say something. Jhín of the "Jhin" Club Jhin

37 Comments

Speeedy2/18/2019, 11:09:43 PM1 votes

the problem is hes slightly weak right now and you are saying a massive buff to him, he has to lose power somewhere for your Q change and his AS growth

ThreshHub2/18/2019, 11:42:50 PM1 votes

I always considered jhin a champ that, when meta, is too strong and, when not meta, he is basically a troll pick. He really needs some changes but the root on his r, even without the slow, seems kinda strong for catching people for your team.

Bisaknosp2/19/2019, 12:17:23 AM1 votes

saw that you want his as increased at later lvl's and stopped reading after that (tired xd) so idk if you said it afterwards

if they are going to do that they have to reduce the ad and ms his passive gives him otherwise he would be too overbearing and even harder to catch than he is now (if you dont have point and click cc)

SanKakU2/19/2019, 1:49:32 AM1 votes

I don't like how you mentioned buffing his passive but not nerfing it also. Right now his passive is insane because he gets to deal bonus damage based on missing health so you basically want to buff him without a nerf it seems like a really bad idea. However, like the idea of him having 1.234 attack speed because it kind of looks like he's counting to the number 4. But that's the only reason I like it at all. But really, that's kind of just a meme. His attack speed already is a huge change in the late game to the next game a lot of inexperienced players will falter by forgetting that he has lower attack speed at level 1, but hey... why not just suggest he starts off with more attack speed and then on top of that cut down the bonus damage the passive gives? People are spamming ignite supports right now because they want to give their Jhin ally more passive damage.

4 Step Cadence2/19/2019, 2:50:41 AM1 votes

I am... Far too sick to read and understand all that.

I agree on the attack speed, though.

Saianna2/19/2019, 2:45:27 PM1 votes

If anything I'd rather see his flower-trap upgraded, as it's the only ability, that deals no real damage at any point of the game (unless you went AP) and requires the most setup (the snipe-cc)

It's the very same ability as old caitlyn had with her traps. It's an utility ability meant to give jhin time to run away.

Secondly I'd like to see Jhins snipe-cc to have bigger impact. Not even damage wise, but the feel of the ability. It feels very mediocre. I wouldn't mind some low AP ratio added, like 0.1

Other than that.. Eh it's fine I guess?

Oh, how about his reload time is affected by CDR? I wonder how that would work

General Matty2/19/2019, 4:37:38 PM1 votes

We need you on the balance team

Poske2/19/2019, 4:39:57 PM1 votes

Ok so the problem with Jhin is that he is near troll pick status in high elo

High Elo AD carry mains are all good at orbwalking / kiting

With jhin those mechanics dont matter. Unless somewhere in your thread which I didnt read you had meantioned that this things should matter which literaly strip away jhin from being jhin you arent fixing Jhin. In other words he is doomed ;/

Another thing is Jhin being extremly ineffective if none is at LOW HP making jhin better when you have good teammates but bad else His R is also quite unreliable / non scarry

Anime Fizz2/19/2019, 4:43:10 PM1 votes

"My main isnt broken anymore please make him broken as shit again so i can climb again"

Basically this thread.

Why do ppl even upvote this? Like its so blatant.

The thigh guy2/19/2019, 5:12:48 PM1 votes

My suggestion would be make it so he doesn’t get ad for 4 different stats.

And reduce the time he can hold his 4th shot and increase his reload speed.