Thoughts on Karma's current state?

OverpoweredSoap·1/4/2016, 1:38:29 AM·6 votes·1,926 views

I'm curious on everyone's thoughts on Karma. She seems to be forgotten after the changes Riot has done to her. She also seems to get very little talk and when she does it's people talking about her rework again.

I feel like she's kinda fine but could use a little tuning, but I mostly play off game modes anyways. (ARAM, special game modes etc.) She seems slightly outclassed by Lulu, and I feel like that's going to be a major problem for her balance wise. Since both Karma's kit and Lulu's are both used to adapt to situations, when one is good, the other tends to be bad or worse off imo.

I would really like to know what other people think of her currently, so it would be great if you guys could leave how you feel about her down below.

31 Comments

Sinister Anubis1/4/2016, 1:44:59 AM9 votes

Give me my old karma and i will be happy again

Sire Hippington1/4/2016, 2:30:31 AM3 votes

I think mostly a revert of her latest changes and some number tuneing would be nice. right now, she's just a worse version of lulu for most of it. The aoe shield isn't really big enough, neither is the speedbuff to make that a selling point, and the singletarget lockdown is very situational and mostly good for jungle/sup as it costs her A LOT potential damage.

Befor they took away the damage on mantra-W/E, she was more damage focused and that was her sellingpoint compared to lulu. Now her mantra E is more a ' i wish i were lulu' singletarget shield, and her W is very conditional and not really the 'dueling' mantra. In most situations, mantra Q seems just the best choice, which partially is based on the shared CDs between manta and normal skills. Often your W or E is on cd when you'd like to mantra it and not needed anymore once the mantra is ready, whle Q rarly runs into that problem as it isn't as situational and has a really low cd.

I'm not sure if she wouldn't need a bigger rework, as her kit lacks focus. She does to many different things while beeing great at nothing, though beeing adaptive kinda fits her new lore.

Death by Glamour1/4/2016, 1:45:45 AM3 votes

Jack of all trades master of none springs to mind.

She lacks utility to be a true support and isnt the best solo laner despite the numbers. Edit alot of the new additions to botlane like annie brand and zyra simple have the same damage as good as if not better utility.

A poor mans lulu basically.

Also needs her old model back

A Latte Deaths1/4/2016, 12:41:57 PM3 votes

She seems perfectly balanced to me.

Sure, I guess if you want to oversimplify things then she's similar to Lulu in the way that she has a bit of everything with a focus on poke in the laning phase. The difference is that Lulu's kit is focused on peeling for a single target with damage that falls off once mid game arrives, whereas Karma has damage that scales well into late-game with some multi-man peel (big AoE shields and speed boosts, AoE slow fields) that's less potent than Lulu's single target peel.

Karma =/= Lulu Lulu absolutely does not outclass Karma.

just a memory1/4/2016, 11:01:02 AM2 votes

Why would I ever pick Karma over anyone else?

Ale non è male1/4/2016, 11:05:35 AM2 votes

Karma needs a W buff, because normal W flat out sucks unless the enemy decide to not move or move towards you (because even with shield put on yourself chase the enemy to keep the tether put you at huge risk) and on paper empowered W is good, but in the reality it just turn out to be not worthy to get it over empowered Q or E

Once she gets it, she's fine

Edit: and by buff I don't necessarily need strict damage buff, I think more of slight range buffs both in cast and tether range, small heal on normal W and stun instead of root if you can successfully complete the tether on empowered W

PowderToast1/10/2016, 6:24:31 AM2 votes

where is my "bring back old Karma" option ...

seriously, old Karma was fine. Karma used to be able to dave my ass in 2v1 bot lanes when my adc was afk ...

Karma went from being a champ who choose to dish out "karma" as she wanted good or bad ... her ulty was so fun to play around with.

Karma used to be able to be mid lane, when her mid lane went afk ...help her team, no more. now amumu jungler has to hold mid lane ...smdh.

Sorry Riot, messed up Karma just like Sion ... they don't care.

Karma has only one use now, a very niche support who has only two dmg moves, one of these her AA ...sad.

shyv1/4/2016, 2:08:27 AM2 votes

i like playing her, she has some pretty strong poke and disengage, but i wouldn't take her into ranked. i feel like she's not quite viable compared to other supports that have a ridiculous amount of peel like tahm or braum or janna or whatever.

probably balanced but if she got buffed i wouldn't complain

SnazzyTheMister1/4/2016, 9:58:17 AM2 votes

first off i play alot of karma. most of that time is in "new" karma but i did play some pre rework.

i enjoy that i can use my early game power to get leads that sometimes turn into large snowballs but also if that doesn't happen i can shield bomb for my team and still have an impact. i like her jack of all trades kit and using my build to accentuate whatever area is important that game. sometimes going for an eco damage build with laundrys, sometimes going for big aoe shields with raw ap, sometimes going for over all utility with cdr cap.

i can see there being room for her to be honed farther or have some numbers tweaked and such but over all i'm pretty satisfied with her current standing.

Hupsis1/4/2016, 10:41:27 AM2 votes

She's alright. Not too strong and not too weak. She could use a little addition to differentiate her from other champions to make her more unique. Usually the passive of a champion makes them known for what they are but Karma's passive is just reduced mantra cd when landing abilities and attacks.

Nobody really thinks of Karma being this mantra machine even if she's capable of being such in the late game since this aspect is not imminent from the very start of the game. I think the cd reducing passive should be moved to mantra itself and she should get a new passive that defines her game play theme as the "enlightened one" or the spirit mage she's supposed to be. Recent passives given to champions have been almost like activatable (Zilean, Fiora, Kindred). Maybe Karma should get something similar (but obviously something unique to her)? I think her power level is ok so the new passive could be some kind of an supportive utility tool.

Quepha1/5/2016, 4:05:34 PM2 votes

I like current Karma. She's a fun little skirmish mage with some neat stuff. She can bait extremely well, constantly throw out a ton of poke with damage that adds up over time, and her shield/baby shurelia's is awesome for her team.

snibedi snab1/5/2016, 4:26:44 PM2 votes

She's a more efficient mage but she's painfully boring and her passive is something that shouldn't exist on any champion, new or old, at any stage of the game.

Fanny Forecast1/6/2016, 9:59:20 AM2 votes

Her kit is actually incredibly powerful when utilized properly. Her issue is she's a seige/poke mage, which are typically undesirable. Her peeling skills are pretty selfish (better at peeling for self than for allies) and is honestly too magey to be a support.

Her kit or power or anything isn't an issue, she is VERY balanced. She's just a champion that is situational. Her main one being a blind pick, since she has ENOUGH utility with a decent chunk of damage and a very fluid kit that's hard to counter via a champion.

What I want to see is more people taking after the amazing thing I "found" (found builds on MOBAfire, tweaked em to be better) being RoA AND Serephs in Top Lane. She'd be similar to Nidalee but honestly so much better. Her early game duelling power in top is super strong, and with this build, you're sacrificing a bit of her mid game to empower her late game. Considering the fact that she has high base damages without items (AND IS RANGED), this is 100% acceptable in top lane. This also opens her up to building slightly tankier (she has one of the highest, if not THE highest, defense power of the mages (coughs Annie juggermage).

But still, she's an incredibly fun and versatile champion who is a solid pick that no one considers because shes TOO balanced. Thats my opinion, at least.

Poop Jelly1/4/2016, 1:42:32 AM2 votes

I think Karma & lulu are different in what they do. In my opinion, Karma's better at bot lane support when dealing with enemy's pokey ranged compositions (Sona, Zyra, Lulu, Morgana, Caitlyn, Ashe, etc.) while Lulu's better at bot lane support when dealing with engaging compositions (Alistar, Taric, Leona, Naut, Blitz, Thresh, Unconventional melee AD supports, Graves, Vayne, etc.).

I voted balanced for Karma. If you're familiar with her kits, there are many stuffs you can do with her and be creative, unlike Sona or Soraka.

OverpoweredSoap1/8/2016, 8:37:06 PM1 votes

Interesting discussion and perspectives from both sides.

It seems a good amount of people think she is fine and a good amount of people think that she's underpowered or a little unreliable. Sorry I haven't been able to add to the discussion, I've been pretty busy lately irl (Sister's wedding things to get done) and I've been popping in and out of threads.

Also, quick question, does anyone else have trouble with the poll? I can't vote nor can I see the results, so I can't really get feedback from it. If anyone else can show me the results that'd be great.

Solidair31/4/2016, 2:00:07 PM1 votes

Karma is essentially a lulu with a little less utility and a little more offensive threat.

And I am okay with that. She's mostly in a balanced state I'd say.

Ionian StarChild1/4/2016, 6:01:43 PM1 votes

She's balanced but not quite "viable" per say. All I could think of right now is that she should get a new passive, one that will separate her further from similar picks and benefit all of her spells, not just her mantra. Her current passive should just be moved to her ult since it's basically her mantra's passive.

Ionian StarChild1/4/2016, 6:02:04 PM1 votes

IxtaliKing1/10/2016, 6:18:03 AM1 votes

She's definitely very balanced without a doubt, I do feel like she needs a few little tweaks to give her a real reason to be picked over a champ like Lulu. She could do with a new passive and maybe move her current passive to her ult, and also something better needs to be done with her mantra W and E. R+Q shouldn't be the best choice in most situations, which it really feels like it is at the moment, this wasn't so much the case prior to patch 5.10.