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Need help with new Shen

Korkalus··4 votes·1,806 views

Hello, I used to be a good player with Shen, not a pro but before the rework I used to make some good plays and so. My usual score was 3/0/10 or so in many games.

Now that reworks is on live, I feel totally useless, now W seems like it was made to be a support (since it only block autos without on hit), I feel his W reaaaaally weak, like I don't need it at all except for activating my shield if other skills are on cd. While I really feel this like his worst skill, I see people saying it is op, so I tried hard to learn how new shen works but untill now, after 20 games or so, my very best game has been 0/8/2, I know, really bad game.

Overall, as old Shen Main, my opinion is that new shen could have be done better, I don't feel tanky anymore, and I don't like having to pull my spirit sword that have less life than a rock. The only thing that remembers me that I'm playing shen and not another subpar champion is his E and R. In my personal opinion, this rework should suffer a rollback, but that will never happen.

So please, if you are a new generation Shen (or a readapted old Shen main), tell me, what should I buy? what should I do now? I really liked this champion but i don't feel he is good anymore for tanking.

TL;DR: Cry about Shen. Help me play with the new one.

12 Comments

Grimmrock3 votes

Im a new Gen Shen.

Here is what I can offer:

New shen has a hard time farming in lane, but a rather effective short engage pattern, if in lane, try to keep farming under tower, initiate with your E, and drag your Q through them, with that complete, get in a few more auto's while they cant use autos to retaliate by activating your W as needed.

In teamfights, position yourself to either engage or disengage for your carries, the same general rule as above applies, but be mindful of where your W is, if its becoming a battle of the AD's make sure to leave your passive on a carry to mitigate damage for them, OR use it for yourself to help you tank out for another 2 seconds, it really can make a huge difference when you're waiting for that last second to get your shield back up.

Personally, I like him best in the jungle, where you can mitigate some of that farming issue while still getting to use his early fight pattern.

For toplane, I recommend working with builds featuring health and the Titanic Hydra, for jungle I reccommend tanky with a side of move fast.

AKA: Top: Sunfire, randuins, Deadmans, Titanic, Banshees, boots Jungle: Cinder, deadmans, swifties, warmogs, banshees, randuins<thorn>

Support: Eye of Osiris, Locket, Zekes-- tanky stuff

Azteryz1 votes

this more or less^^

to add to this when you ult your spirt sword comes with you so take for example if you ult a ez getting auto to death by a caitlyn your sword will pop where you are when you ult so just press w and you can save ez

and i disagree with the farming part they made his farming pretty easy since his q is basically spamable and thus making it easier to farm while your normal autos are just too weak to farm

EstebanElGuapo2 votes

{quoted}

Im a new Gen Shen.

Here is what I can offer:

New shen has a hard time farming in lane, but a rather effective short engage pattern, if in lane, try to keep farming under tower, initiate with your E, and drag your Q through them, with that complete, get in a few more auto's while they cant use autos to retaliate by activating your W as needed.

In teamfights, position yourself to either engage or disengage for your carries, the same general rule as above applies, but be mindful of where your W is, if its becoming a battle of the AD's make sure to leave your passive on a carry to mitigate damage for them, OR use it for yourself to help you tank out for another 2 seconds, it really can make a huge difference when you're waiting for that last second to get your shield back up.

Personally, I like him best in the jungle, where you can mitigate some of that farming issue while still getting to use his early fight pattern.

For toplane, I recommend working with builds featuring health and the Titanic Hydra, for jungle I reccommend tanky with a side of move fast.

AKA: Top: Sunfire, randuins, Deadmans, Titanic, Banshees, boots Jungle: Cinder, deadmans, swifties, warmogs, banshees, randuins<thorn>

Support: Eye of Osiris, Locket, Zekes-- tanky stuff

im in the same boat as op; and i've yet to try to figure out the new kit past watching the spotlight a few times, and trying to custom farm minions vs a bot. That setting up my knowledge of new shen; I do not see his current agressive trade pattern being better or safer than his prior agressive trade pattern. Prior you could lane passive or agressive so the enemy wouldn't know which pattern you would use or if you'd rotate based on need or positioning. You could do your prior combo dmg during the taunt cc with just one auto to proc passive do taunt dmg land a q, walk away back to minions while feinting while only taking half dmg from the taunted autos, and enemy takes minion agro if u taunted them near enough to ur wave, or does so if they try to follow you when u retreat. missing taunt was ur main issue.

Now passive laning appears to be not quite there; and the way Q works and lack of passive laning and lack of using old Q harass to zone, seems to encourage enemy to zone you out and harass you which seems it would encourage you to overemphasize the agressive laning which then allows enemy to try to expect the taunt and try to position accordingly. new taunt doesn't reduce aa dmg. new w does nothng vs ability dmg or possibly (not sure of this) on hit dmg like sheen effects beyond base aa dmg. passive shields seem tiny and short. you need to get your multiple Q attacks off for a good trade which means your opting in now to a non cc'd full trade where in a lot of cases your W is not doing anything for you like vs mages or ability dmg champs of any kind. The trades now seem risky and forced due to the kit change.

I know im just complaining. the prior kit allowed for controlled agression (you could do full kit combo while enemy is cc'd and then retreat while shielded) that was relatively safe if you landed taunt; and switching between passive and agressive laning based on need/situation, and positioning. allowed for harassing and sustaining with Q. It just seems a better and more balanced kit to me. Keep in mind don't have a clue how to use new shen yet. But reading and watching the video he seems to be forced to be taking risky, unsafe, and cant think of the word (new play is telegraphed) but to play in a way where oponent knows what he is intending or wanting or needing to do constantly.

Melledoneus1 votes

Think old Shen without range. You need to CS and weave in autos if your opponent tries to get in close. Your Q will ensure a win in a one auto trade. If your opponent tries to go in on you, walk a little past them and taunt them into your minions or your turret. Fight them there. If they retreat, punish them. If they fight, proc your W and punish them even harder. It's a lose-lose for them.

The reason Shen doesn't feel tanky anymore is because he's more "pressure" rather than "hit me." By that I mean he cares less about face tanking and more about being a threat with Titanic Hydra. While I will always miss full tank Shen, the new one is starting to grow on me.

Fellix7221 votes

The reason he feels less tanky is because he has no sustain and his Shield timing is awful since it cant fully be controlled depending on your situation. and the Replacement for his W shield has such a high cooldown that you cant use it all the time and if you do use it without winning anything significant (Which is easy since all the enemy has to do is take 2 steps back and wait 1.7 seconds which is only enough time for 1 auto attack anyways) than you have lost even more. And since his Q does so little damage compared to what it did before (especially in conjunction to what his passive did) he cant really afford to get into brawls with opponents without having to use his E to run away.

I used to play Shen in the JG and he was one of my best characters. A sure bet really but he just cant stay in fights since his W absorbs less damage and he cant heal up.

Before you could enter into harassment combat by using Q E W auto and then walk out. if you did it right you got a auto attack off with his passive on the opponent after he was marked and taunted and the most the enemy got off of you was half your shield and all the while you just regained 4% of your HP back without much risk.

Melledoneus1 votes

Before I reply, I will assure you that I am a Shen main who has been playing him since Season 4, dedicating myself to playing him top and occasionally jungle.

Shen feels less tanky not because of his sustain, but because his scaling armor was nerfed really hard to compensate for his W. Not to mention that his shield is more spammable now and is more energy efficient since it works with other abilities, Shen can dominate most lanes. Should Shen get ahead and buy a Titanic Hydra, his opponent will find difficulty fighting him since his damage just scales harder from there.

True Shen mains miss his sustain as much as I do, but the new synergies and shields in his kit allow him to adopt a more agressive and tactical playstyle that is surprisingly fun. Of course, Teemo and Fiora lanes will still suck.

Fellix7222 votes

They not only suck but they are unplayable, it simply isnt fun to run into combat with Shen without the ability to slow them down with a Q w/ Rylias.

Ganking and splitpushing are also nerfed since his W doesn't work against turrets

Melledoneus1 votes

Ok, if you're talking AP Shen, then no, I can't console you. If you're talking full tank Shen, then I'm your guy.

Fellix7221 votes

Rylias Crystal Scepter + Nashors tooth pre Rework/Nerf made Shen into an actual assassin character. remember his passive cooldown was reduced by 1 sec per auto attack, and if you add in the AP from Rylias and Nashors with the Nashors tooth passive you can get some serious damage cranking out. not to mention you didnt loose all that much tankiness since Rylias has so much HP and not to mention its passive helping in ganking situations.

Meep Man1 votes

New Gen Shen plays like a lot different Tank. If you look into his base stats, you will notice they are beyond awful. I believe it was 73 health per level and 2.5 armor per level now. However, Shen has two active mitigation spells, being his Passive and W. These are what make him a Tank and should be what you use whenever they will mitigate damage.

Laning Phase

In lane, it is important to not use your Q to CS unless you are alone in lane. You have to become really good at seeing what your enemy plans to do based on their movements. If they are in a cast animation that you know can deal damage, immediately cast your Q to gain a shield. Ki Barrier is deceptively large of a shield and it will be able to negate majority of poke damage early on in the laning phase. Basically meaning, if your enemy only has one way to damage you from afar, with correct timing, you are invincible in lane. However, if you stay at a range to where the only way an enemy can damage you is poke you then you are missing CS, which is bad.

So, the plan here is to, before your opponent can do anything, be sure to get your spirit blade next to you with a Q. Next, if the opponent is poking still Q and DONT BASIC ATTACK THEM! Minion aggro is extremely important due to Shen's low stats and relying on active mitigation and the constant damage from minion aggro will wither you away quick. Instead, use your Q enhanced hits to instead be used as farm assist. While I told you not to do this, this is fine here since you were using your Q to negate poke and you are in melee range to farm. If your opponent full on engages you, using your W to get Ki Barrier up and the dodge buff will allow you to become the closest thing to immune to damage FOR A TRADE in the game without being an ultimate or invulnerability. Why? Dodging negates basic attacks and the shield is enough to block one spell, meaning the enemy will have to fully unload on you if they plan on doing any damage.

If the enemy is attempting to use their full rotation you, then it is time to engage if you can. You need to give them some damage back with a quick Q and E. This is what trading is. They full rotation, you full rotation. However, since you use Energy and if they use Mana, then you can do this nearly as often as you want. Anyways, that's the basic defensive pattern as Shen.

Moving onto his offensive pattern in lane, he works in ways that you wouldn't see at first. First off, Shen's version of poking in Top Lane is not with his Q, but with his E. Why? Heck, remember what I said about minion aggro? Thats innately letting the enemy get free poke back at you. Instead, deal damage with your E, get Ki Barrier, and then have your own minions aggro onto the enemy for additional damage. Remember to not basic attack them so the same doesn't happen to you. Shen's full rotation offensive, as I call it, is what you would think. Q to get the blade in position, then EQ and W if need be. This will allow Shen to pull off as much damage as possible. If you dont kill them with one EQ, then you likely wont be killing them unless you have an ally with you to crowd control them further.

As a standard rule, once you hit Level 6, look out for good ultimates. Dont ultimate for everything even if they tell you to. If your ally has 3 enemies destroying them, they are gone. Your shield isnt that good until Level 16 really. Anyways, instead of all defensive ultimates, you can also do some offensive ultimates by using your ultimate on invisible allies like Rengar and Twitch to set up some crazy combos, making Shen a true ninja. Securing a kill with a Shen ultimate is always great.

Team Fights

You are out of the laning phase and now the team fights are breaking out. Or maybe this is during the laning phase, but its time to secure a Dragon and your ultimate is up. Either way, this applies. Your standard role in a team fight is to protect allies and damage enemies at the SAME TIME! How? Communication thats how. Who says you need to use Q? E into the enemy team yet leave your Spirit Blade at whoever you teleported to. If the enemy team is smart, after the E, they will focus the squishy and not you IF THE TEAM FIGHT ISNT A MASSACRE TO BEGIN WITH. Anyways, use your W to help mitigate half of the forms of damage that that ally and allies around the Spirit Blade would take, especially these days with people like Jax running everywhere. Of course, if they begin to focus you, Q immediately and W as quickly as possible. If you die before you can Q and W, then you engaged into the wrong fight or bit off more than you can chew. There should be another front liner on your team so you aren't absorbing ALL the damage.

If the enemy team is winning the team fight, a cool trick you can do is E behind them but not hit them with the E and then Q before they react to slow them since they are likely chasing your team and since you just E'd behind them, they will be slowed. While this leaves you vulnerable, Shen can get out of some serious stuff if he plays his cards PERFECTLY. So you dashed and then slowed, now you have escaped.

Sometimes, if you have a sustained damage melee carry or Melee ADC, then you should instead wait for the other front liner to engage while you ultimate the Melee ADC so that they become much tankier during their initial dive. Not to mention you get to join the dive once it's done, giving the Melee ADC a taunt to keep the enemy in place and kill them. Don't do this if your Melee ADC is too ballsy though since then he will just die then.


Thats all I got for you.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

you´re right, new Shen is just not worth it anymore. You can only lane him if your opponent doesn´t care about his positioning and gets hit by the glowstick repeatedly - otherwise your trades become weak and without sustain you inevitably will lose.

his w ist just really weak...as you can´t freely position the glowstick you cannot use it to support anyone but yourself, and even then it´s just the ultra ultra light version of windwall, if at all.

right now the only place he´s decent is the jungle, but there are so many better picks right now...

for higher elo-play he´s definitly dead.

Korkalus1 votes

First, thanks all of you for all your replies,

second, after a while trying to play the new gen shen I decided that he is not a safe pick anymore, he is too focused to fight back AA based compositions because of his W.

Shen was my main, and everytime I needed a safe pick I always picked him, nowadays feels like he is only safe vs ADCs.

I'm happy that there is people that enjoys new shen, but I'm really angry that Riot didn't count on old Shen users opinion to make this rework.

Nowadays I just don't use Shen anymore since it feels really lackluster for me.

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