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Much as I hate Lee Sin

OJ191·11/19/2014, 3:12:35 AM·15 votes·2,048 views

I think he's actually an example of good champion design ideals. As well as having your basic "skill at league of legends", he also can do stuff that other champions cannot do, or at least not in the same way as he does it. This means that "skill at lee sin" is also a relevant factor.

Compared to say.... Pantheon who is purely point and click and winning a fight is typically just a matter of stat checks - do I have the damage and defenses to kill them before they can kill me, allies can come to their aid, or they can escape the fight. Even his ult mostly follows the same decision making patterns as the summoner spell Teleport, albeit with a lower cooldown and range restrictions (unless you go AP pantheon I guess? lol). The only real "Pantheon-specific" decision making he has is passive management, and even that typically isn't much more than "use stun asap after they break my passive for instant refresh", so far as I have been able to gather from watching, not being a pantheon player myself.

That said, screw lee sin, he has too much of a good thing and never has to fight a battle he doesn't want to.

28 Comments

Kuroi8611/19/2014, 12:23:23 PM3 votes

Panth may be point and click, but he's squishy, his only CC lasts .75 seconds and his big damage (E) is easily interrupted by CC. Panth is strong, but the real strategy lies in knowing when to go in or else you just feed.

WooBeeWoo11/19/2014, 3:39:43 PM3 votes

I think Lee Sin is pretty dam balanced. He has his strong points in the game (plays like an assassin early) but scales well into a tank that does like no damage by late game. In fact I find that by late game all I'm good for as Lee is my ult kick to protect the adc. Plus he's unique and super fun.

Hayaishi11/19/2014, 4:31:27 AM3 votes

He's fine right now IMO.

I think he's hated more due to the fact Riot doesn't like nerfing him, but they don't think twice when it comes to nerfing something else.

Spacesuit Spiff11/19/2014, 8:23:14 AM3 votes

My fix for Lee: change his energy costs earlygame so that if he doesn't get his blue somehow, he hates his life even more than mumu and fiddles.

Anyway, that's a good point. I wish it was more emphasized these days but half the people who play Lee barely use his mobility to half its potential; he's just too good at everything other than being useful lategame.

UPfreely11/19/2014, 4:05:11 AM3 votes

The problem with this is that you get to counter play people as lee sin but they don't get to counter play you.

Hellioning11/19/2014, 3:24:32 AM2 votes

I don't disagree with your basic point, though I think that most of Lee Sin's supposed 'skill requirements' are vastly overemphasized.

thinking man11/19/2014, 3:13:41 AM1 votes

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Saelani11/19/2014, 9:34:09 PM1 votes

Currently Lee is still a bit to strong, mostly because of the massive sustain his kit brings on top of having one of the highest base health regen in the game. If they tone the regen down, he might just be ok. When you look at other champions with some form of sustain, let's say Rengar, sustain is extremely low (4hp5 at lvl 1 for example) where as Lee has a whopping 8.95 at level 1, on top of his safeguard/iron will sustain.

Rikari11/19/2014, 4:29:44 AM1 votes

You don't need skill,just practice for ANY some champions. However if you have skill, GG.

Kowe The Ewok11/19/2014, 10:18:43 AM1 votes

They could have made Lee Sin a skill depending champion WITHOUT adding ADDITIONAL insane utility like shields, spellvamp and attackspeed slows to his kit.

BurningHerEyesIn11/19/2014, 4:21:12 PM1 votes

DON'T TALK BAD ABOUT MY PANTHEON!

mi ramfan11/19/2014, 4:39:12 PM1 votes

I hate him because of what he was in the past. He had no weaknesses in the jungle (cleared fast with good sustain, good early ganks, decent transition into late game) so he essentially became the litmus test by which all other junglers were measured.

Every jungler's value was measured by two things: how well they did against an invading Lee 1v1 (they couldn't actually kill him because lulSafeguardtoward, so it was more "can their teammates get there before they lose camps/their life"), and how much better or worse Lee was at their job than them. For someone like Shyvana or Nocturne, the comparison was inevitably not in their favor. The rare jungler who gasp could do something better then Lee/Jarvan/Vi was quickly nerfed.

Lee is a lot weaker now than he was in his heyday (he was pick/ban for about a year). I'm just 100% sick of dealing with him at this point. I never want to see another Lee, even if he's not necessarily OP anymore, because he's so incredibly annoying to deal with. I feel the same way about Ezreal (because of League of Ezreal/Taric in S2/S3), Zed, Fizz, and Yasuo.

Martyrofsand11/19/2014, 8:16:51 PM1 votes

Lee Sin, like most champions with toxic degrees of mobility, is a reflex and ping test, not a skill test.