The inherit problem with Autofill and how we are taught to play League

KAAAAAAAYN DO·Nov 23, 2016·5 votes·1,674 views

"Have a main role and a secondary role and 2-4 champs in those roles" "Play you mains as often as you can because you will be a lot more effective on those champs" "Runes are important so get rune pages only for the champs you play most"

All of these are things we see in YouTube videos, hear from players higher than us trying to help us climb etc. So when you have players get auto filled into a position they 1) don't play 2) they don't have runes for 3) they don't WANT to play 4) they don't understand HOW to play we run into HUGE issues. I understand the point is to reduce queue times, but when you have 1-2 players getting auto filled every lobby and then dodging continuously you run into major issues. Today alone the average of my friends, playing a mix of normal and ranked around bronze-gold mmr's average about 15 dodges before they get into a match for a queue time that looks around 13.5 minutes from when the click play to when champion select has finished and the loading screen is about to start. Does that seem like it's working? In addition to dodge penalties (removing them from the queue pool for 6-10 min or more) you start to see that auto fill is causing more problems that its fixing from a players viewpoint. Now, if you have statistics and can show me that auto fill actually is working I'll happily support you but as of now it's seeming to only create more problems.

24 Comments

ViiLLAiNNov 23, 20165 votes

nah

if u wanna get better at this game you have to learn how to play every role

the reason for this is so that you can understand and put urself in the minds of the other players on the map

for ex.. if u played jungle alot youd know ok this champ likes to start red then gank early so u are mentally prepared for it.. or zac ok level 9 leets say zac upgrades his jump so it now has a higher range

like just playing a wide range of champs and all roles just helps u with game knowledge and in the long run is a easy way to climb

i found myself winning more games because i started to understand what certain champs neeed to do and i can predict where certain people will be on the map or where they might be going

knowing other champs power spikes is another Ex.

i personally think everyone should be forced to learn every role it just helps u out in the long run..

M Dragon14Nov 23, 20161 votes

You don't need to play every role/every champ to understand this. I play adc pretty much exclusively (minus a few mid champs and one jungle), but understand how other roles depending on their champs should play. Does it help? Sure, but it's not needed by any means.

ChaddyFantomeNov 23, 20164 votes

Back in my day if you couldn't play every role at least decently, you were a scrub no questions asked. Role Pick has spoiled you children rotten.

JendosNov 23, 20161 votes

Silver lol Amumu

ChaddyFantomeNov 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Silver lol

What? Couldn't come up with an argument?

jaymc1130Nov 23, 20163 votes

It's not creating any problems. Its giving the IMPRESSION of problems being created because the changes in the last 2 years have relaxed the need for players to learn basic fundamentals of the game.

In seasons 1-5 there was no such thing as role selection. This meant players had to learn the game to an acceptable degree in every role if they wanted to progress. They didn't have to master a role, but they DID have to acquire a fairly complete set of knowledge about what was REQUIRED of them in that role. This meant that players in season 1-5 were far superior in terms of skill at any point on the ladder because they were more capable in more roles with more champions and this in turn lead to players acquiring basic fundamental strategic knowledge. Furthermore, because there was no role selection the ability to work as a TEAM and ORGANIZE your team and COMMUNICATE with your team to get every player on the team into an ideal situation that gave the team the best chance for success was a primary skill.

Quite simply, the reason you are under the IMPRESSION that the changes and things like auto fill cause issues in the last year and couple months is because players these days are encouraged to avoid learning basic fundamental gameplay aspects where in previous seasons the system itself FORCED players to learn these things and learn how to work as a team, together, starting in the lobby before a game ever starts, which, of course, made role selection a complete non factor. One or two people every lobby would op.gg everyone else in the lobby and identify the best possible composition with every person playing something they were not only competent at, but highly successful at, if they ever wanted to climb.

So the problem isn't that auto fill puts players who have no idea what they are doing into roles they don't comprehend, the problem is that players no longer feel a need to LEARN how to do the things they need to do in order to be successful. Which is what happens when Riot continues to dumb the game down for casual players for years on end.

In essence mate, the issue isn't auto fill, its role selection, as role selection encourages poor play habits and discourages teamwork. Things would be better if role selection was removed entirely and players were again forced to work with the team, starting in lobby, to put every player in an ideal position to contribute to the success of the team.

And just as an extra caveat, players like myself who are extremely proficient at a particular role or champ actually got that role MORE often in past season than we do with the role selection feature. People who are given a specific role are a LOT less inclined to give that role up for the good of the team to the guy with an 85% win rate in that role now then in the past. I basically got what I wanted (provided I was trying to climb and did my job communicating my effectiveness in said position) every single match in previous seasons. Every time. Without fail. People like free wins and as long as they don't feel ENTITLED to a specific role they tend to want the person with the best chance of ending the game in a win in position to end the game in a win. Role selection was actually one of the worst things to ever happen to the ladder because its become a crutch for players with a low degree of skill and talent and affords them an opportunity to avoid ever having to learn basic fundamental aspects of the game like how to "get carried" when they aren't the best player in the match.

bad arcade kittyNov 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

People who are given a specific role are a LOT less inclined to give that role up for the good of the team to the guy with an 85% win rate in that role now then in the past.

i personally always despised role beggars who claimed that they were pro or something if they wanted my role

you can be a faker himself on his smurf for what i care, if you are support i won't swap with you

jaymc1130Nov 23, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w3w1e359,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-11-23T06:04:31.940+0000)

i personally always despised role beggars who claimed that they were pro or something if they wanted my role

you can be a faker himself on his smurf for what i care, if you are support i won't swap with you

Well, this inability to work with your team is likely the reason you aren't a very skilled player mate. Might be something you wanna work on.

Just as a personal example from this past season, I am one of the best junglers on this entire SERVER. Hand down. Easly top 200, probably closer to top 50. But I am NOT the best. Just by chance I ran into a known challenger smurf who happens to be a better jungler than I myself am. He had an 83% win rate master yi one trick account, and I was playing a merely 65% win rate one trick eve account. He demaded jungle in the lobby even though it had been assigned to me and he had been given support. The rest of the team started to bitch and whine and moan about the "elo terrorist". Only... he WASN'T being a terrorist. He was very calmly, and very clearly, telling us that the best chance to win was if the best player for the role played the role.

And guess what I did?

I agreed with him.

I told him we were better off with him in the jungle.

I moved for a superior player.

Why? Because sometimes you have to know when, and how, to GET carried.

Wanna see the result of the match?

https://i.gyazo.com/e91dfcc028565e7c8559918d057ee586.png

Played on oOBestEveNaOo.

Good players know how to work with the team, for the good of the team, always. Its a team game. Being a good teammate is kind of key mate. You might try it in the future, its bound to improve the odds of you achieving success.

bad arcade kittyNov 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Well, this inability to work with your team is likely the reason you aren't a very skilled player mate. Might be something you wanna work on.

Just as a personal example from this past season, I am one of the best junglers on this entire SERVER. Hand down. Easly top 200, probably closer to top 50. But I am NOT the best. Just by chance I ran into a known challenger smurf who happens to be a better jungler than I myself am. He had an 83% win rate master yi one trick account, and I was playing a merely 65% win rate one trick eve account. He demaded jungle in the lobby even though it had been assigned to me and he had been given support. The rest of the team started to bitch and whine and moan about the "elo terrorist". Only... he WASN'T being a terrorist. He was very calmly, and very clearly, telling us that the best chance to win was if the best player for the role played the role.

And guess what I did?

I agreed with him.

I told him we were better off with him in the jungle.

I moved for a superior player.

Why? Because sometimes you have to know when, and how, to GET carried.

Wanna see the result of the match?

https://i.gyazo.com/e91dfcc028565e7c8559918d057ee586.png

Played on oOBestEveNaOo.

Good players know how to work with the team, for the good of the team, always. Its a team game. Being a good teammate is kind of key mate. You might try it in the future, its bound to improve the odds of you achieving success.

dude, you claim that you extorting your role from other people who main it and who, you know, will not have you on their team the next game and therefore should practice their role themselves, is something good for them? it's good only for you. each of them always has a higher chance to have you on the enemy team anyway, because 4 vs 5 possible slots for you on theirs vs on the enemy team. so, even if you are a very skilled in some role it is not in any way good for them to let you get your role if they main it themselves, except a possibly a bit higher (and then who knows how much you are actually skilled, most of these claimers are trash) chance to win this current game, strategically it only hurts them while is good for you, that's why you are so about it

obviously that you call your extorting "communicating with your team", i saw it quite a few times and always ignored or was rude with people like you

jaymc1130Nov 23, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w3w1e359,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-23T06:47:12.709+0000)

dude, you claim that you extorting your role from other people who main it and who, you know, will not have you on their team the next game and therefore should practice their role themselves, is something good for them? it's good only for you. each of them always has a higher chance to have you on the enemy team anyway, because 4 vs 5 possible slots for you on theirs vs on the enemy team. so, even if you are a very skilled in some role it is not in any way good for them to let you get your role if they main it themselves, except a possibly a bit higher (and then who knows how much you are actually skilled, most of these claimers are trash) chance to win this current game, strategically it only hurts them while is good for you, that's why you are so about it

obviously that you call your extorting "communicating with your team", i saw it quite a few times and always ignored or was rude with people like you

I had it EXTORTED FROM me. You might also want to check your reading comprehension mate. I had some one basically hold the role hostage from me and the stats didn't lie, it was best for the team If I had moved to support and played leona.

I'm not saying "give in to every elo terrorist who pops his head up".

I'm saying "Do your homework, be a good teammate, op.gg every player in your lobby every match, identify who is best on what, communicate this to the team, be a leader and get the whole team focused on the goal, winning the match."

That lobby had a bunch of players with YOUR attitude and mentality. And they bitched and whined and moaned about some one "trolling". When they hadn't even bothered to see if he was trolling or trying to be as straightforward as possible that the best option for the team (and yes, this yi was thinking about what's best for the team, he did what I did, he op.gged everyone too) would be to allow him to do that. This is why that Yi and I are not just top 1% players on this server, its why we have both been ranked in the top 2000 total players on this server at various points in time. It's because we understand how to work as a team, even when we have to be bossy about it or something, we have the talent and the ability to PERSUADE people that what is best for them is what is best for them. I didn't HAVE to move. I could have been stubborn. Like you. I could have ALLOWED him to "troll" the team and likely lost the match.

Or I can be a GOOD player. A GOOD teammate. And I can do what is best for the team.

This is why you fail consistently, and its why role selection is a bad thing. It encourages you to do what is best for yourself. It enables your selfishness.

If you want to succeed at this game you have to give up that selfish attitude. You have to learn to be selfless. Sometimes you have to learn to take a step back and let some one else do something not because they are better at it or worse at it than you, but because DOING that thing allows EVERYONE on the team to operate at peak efficiency and ability.

This doesn't mean just appease every one about everything.

This means use your brain.

Some people are truly reprehensible morons.

Just avoid them. You're allowed to dodge for a reason.

This is a strategy game. APPLY some form of strategy. And the game doesn't start on the rift. It starts in the lobby. It starts as soon as you have a group of people who are able to communicate. Role selection has become a crutch for players like yourself. I seek to give you the power to walk without it again. Whether or not you desire to is up to you.

bad arcade kittyNov 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

it seems i have to say to you some unpleasant things because you are very full of the abusive self-importance.

you know, it's not like in that walt whitman's poem "Out of the rolling ocean the crowd came a drop gently to me...", no, it is not.

you are not important to me. you are basically a non-entity to me. you don't matter. your achievements don't matter. you are words on the screen to me. speaking slightly flowery you are nothing but a tiny speckle in my today. i will likely never meet you again and if i meet i will not remember you because i didn't even bother to read your name fully and anyway my memory about names is awful.

obviously you can say the same about me (it doesn't matter to me since you don't matter) but there is a difference between us - you try to force your self-importance on me and i don't try to force mine on you. furthermore, the reason why you try to force your supposed importance is purely utilitarian - you want to persuade people to give you your role.

since you don't matter the only use which i can have for you is utilitarian as well. i already explained that giving you your role is strategically harmful to me, so accepting your importance means that i go against my own utilitarian interests and follow yours. obviously i am not a fool to allow myself to be used by some random literally who in such a way

that's basically all... your logic that giving you your role is beneficial to others works only if you play in a full team for a few games but doesn't work in the solo queue

jaymc1130Nov 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w3w1e359,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-23T07:51:12.173+0000)

it seems i have to say to you some unpleasant things because you are very full of the abusive self-importance.

you know, it's not like in that walt whitman's poem "Out of the rolling ocean the crowd came a drop gently to me...", no, it is not.

you are not important to me. you are basically a non-entity to me. you don't matter. your achievements don't matter. you are words on the screen to me. speaking slightly flowery you are nothing but a tiny speckle in my today. i will likely never meet you again and if i meet i will not remember you because i didn't even bother to read your name fully and anyway my memory about names is awful.

obviously you can say the same about me (it doesn't matter to me since you don't matter) but there is a difference between us - you try to force your self-importance on me and i don't try to force mine on you. furthermore, the reason why you try to force your supposed importance is purely utilitarian - you want to persuade people to give you your role.

since you don't matter the only use which i can have for you is utilitarian as well. i already explained that giving you your role is strategically harmful to me, so accepting your importance means that i go against my own utilitarian interests and follow yours. obviously i am not a fool to allow myself to be used by some random literally who in such a way

that's basically all... your logic that giving you your role is beneficial to others works only if you play in a full team for a few games but doesn't work in the solo queue

As long as you keep the poor, selfish attitude you display and willfully choose ignorance over experience you will remain an unskilled, below average player.

When you decide you no longer want to be an ineffective unskilled player this information will be waiting here for you to guide you to the true way, the proper path, to being a good teammate and a quality player.

Best of luck in your endeavors mate.

M Dragon14Nov 23, 20161 votes

Ehhhh, idk man. I wouldn't have. I couldn't care less about their kda's or their win%. Doesn't mean they are good or bad.

I mean, if you know they are a challenger smurf, I guess. But most people who claim that shit are lying.

jaymc1130Nov 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=M Dragon14,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w3w1e359,comment-id=000400000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-11-23T07:58:30.591+0000)

Ehhhh, idk man. I wouldn't have. I couldn't care less about their kda's or their win%. Doesn't mean they are good or bad.

I mean, if you know they are a challenger smurf, I guess. But most people who claim that shit are lying.

Well i mean the population of players in diamond level play and up is pretty small mate. You tend to recognize players even when you haven't played with them before simply because you hear about them at this level or recognize a playstyle from a stream or something else. When you play the same 10,000 or so people every day for several years... Yeah. You kinda recognize where you fit in the pecking order at the top of the ladder, it breeds a sense of humility and you are more willing to move out of the way of a more talented player. Players tend to be more respectful in general, and mostly it has to do with attitude. These are people who want to win, want to work as a team, and want to play the game the right way. This attitude is extremely uncommon and far less than 1% of the playing population displays it on a regular basis. It really can be as simple as changing your attitude to be a better teammate to rise in the ranks to some degree.

snachosNov 23, 20161 votes

Well guess what, we are no longer in seasons 1-5. This game made changes that attracted new players, then reversed them. Writing a tirade about how it was harder in 'the old days' does not bring any light to this subject despite your wordy diatribe.

The bottom line is choice, and mandatory Autofill destroys choice. Also, think about all the players being let down by having someone autofill to their team without proper runes or masteries. Autofill creates treasure goblins that spew gold when struck as the players are often unskilled at those roles in low ELO.

Autofill is fine for higher ELO like plat+ because these players already understand the game from multiple angles, but it is a terrible idea at the lower levels. Many new players simply do not have enough runes or champions to be competitive. Forcing new players to autofill is destructive to the game both for those new players and the experienced players who expect to play with people of the same of similar skill level.

jaymc1130Nov 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Well guess what, we are no longer in seasons 1-5. This game made changes that attracted new players, then reversed them. Writing a tirade about how it was harder in 'the old days' does not bring any light to this subject despite your wordy diatribe.

The bottom line is choice, and mandatory Autofill destroys choice. Also, think about all the players being let down by having someone autofill to their team without proper runes or masteries. Autofill creates treasure goblins that spew gold when struck as the players are often unskilled at those roles in low ELO.

Autofill is fine for higher ELO like plat+ because these players already understand the game from multiple angles, but it is a terrible idea at the lower levels. Many new players simply do not have enough runes or champions to be competitive. Forcing new players to autofill is destructive to the game both for those new players and the experienced players who expect to play with people of the same of similar skill level.

This entire statement is pretty much a figment of your imagination and is exactly why role selection was a bad idea in the first place.

There is nothing about autofill that destroys choice, it is ROLE SELECTION that destroyed choice.

In past seasons players were ALWAYS given a choice of any role in every match and it was up to the TEAM to work AS A TEAM to put everyone in an ideal scenario.

Role selection has become such a crutch for many players like yourself that you neglect to learn basic fundamental team oriented game play aspects. You know what is unfair? Forcing one player to play an off role because you allowed 4 others to choose. You know what is fair? 5 players, working together, to determine who is best fit to play EACH role. There are no players being let down by autofill...

They are being let down by role selection.

Forcing players to learn basic gameplay fundamentals isn't destructive to the game.

Its what BUILT the game up in the first place. Or did you imagine a different reason for season 6 being the first season the game didn't grow in number of players? No sir, the reason is simple, dumbing the game down with things like DQ, role selection, and all sorts of other changes directed at casual players caused a significant and huge portion of the player base to quit playing entirely. Why did the game start losing players? Because the changes, like role selection, are inherently bad for the game because it allows players to avoid having to learn basic pieces of knowledge that should be requirements to play ranked at all. The decline in game quality across all levels of play last season (and dramatic decline in quality at that) confirms that this is the case.

You're upset about the wrong thing because you have the wrong perspective. Its not autofill that is an issue. Its role selection.

Also, as an aside, you are aware that autofill is enabled in lower elo ranges right now because of just how many players this game lost last season, right? You do know that its because we lost roughly 20% of the total playerbase... right?

bad arcade kittyNov 23, 20162 votes

oh come on, you know how it used to be? you queued and everybody expected you to play all the five roles, because regardless how many saliva you would spew that you are a badass mid diamond smurf pro one trick pony with 1000 games as insert a current broken mid champion or that you would troll, feed, whatever, if you landed a last pick the chances you would have to go support or jungle or adc, top if you are lucky

"- i can't play insert a role [usually support]!" "- time to learn then"

"- i don't have runes!" "- too bad for you, use what you have"

"- i will troll if i don't get mid!" "- fine, you are reported then"

it was pretty much like that

SanctimoniousNov 23, 20161 votes

I'm a relic of that time. I remember when Dynamic Queue came out, and i was horrified. I actually had to learn a secondary role, because i got top 98% of the time. I had around 3400 games top lane, and about 400 between Mid / Adc / Jungle. I wasn't diamond at that time either. :/

bad arcade kittyNov 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I wasn't diamond at that time either. :/

no offence but not like i would bother to check yours or anybody else's rank on this forum

also

because i got top 98% of the time.

so you were yet another extorter what have changed for you then? you still can extort people into swapping your role

SanctimoniousNov 23, 20161 votes

Idk, i think ranks relevant sometimes because some roles have higher demand in different MMR's. (Jungles higher priority in high elo compared to lower elo.)

Extorter? I mostly copy pasted "Top please. I can play mid / jungle but not nearly as good as top" and i was given it most of the time. I generally believe it's unethical to troll your team by disobeying Pick order > Call order, and that anyone who breaks this (back then) should've been reported.

Anyway, in modern YoloQ / FlexQ people are a bit more adept at their roles than before. People generally go "well, i play tanky skirmishers" and queue top / jungle and stick to those things. I kind of view role swapping from that regard as a bit questionable, and that i'm harming my team by taking someone out of a role that they are proficient at. Just from my point of view.

MedúsaNov 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"Have a main role and a secondary role and 2-4 champs in those roles" "Play you mains as often as you can because you will be a lot more effective on those champs" "Runes are important so get rune pages only for the champs you play most"

All of these are things we see in YouTube videos, hear from players higher than us trying to help us climb etc. So when you have players get auto filled into a position they 1) don't play 2) they don't have runes for 3) they don't WANT to play 4) they don't understand HOW to play we run into HUGE issues. I understand the point is to reduce queue times, but when you have 1-2 players getting auto filled every lobby and then dodging continuously you run into major issues. Today alone the average of my friends, playing a mix of normal and ranked around bronze-gold mmr's average about 15 dodges before they get into a match for a queue time that looks around 13.5 minutes from when the click play to when champion select has finished and the loading screen is about to start. Does that seem like it's working? In addition to dodge penalties (removing them from the queue pool for 6-10 min or more) you start to see that auto fill is causing more problems that its fixing from a players viewpoint. Now, if you have statistics and can show me that auto fill actually is working I'll happily support you but as of now it's seeming to only create more problems.

i could not agree more, it ruins the experience of the game because you cannot control how good your teamate is on a role they dont know, today i queued for top/mid and within a minute got put in a game as support, like honestly did it even search for my roles? funny enough the mid laner on my team had his primary as support and secondary as adc and he got mid, so we swapped, so lets be real, clearly this is coded garbage and not tested

Mysticman89Nov 23, 20161 votes

Up until last season, you did need to be prepared to play every role to at least a passable degree, since there was no garuntee you'd get any role.

Even in those days the guideline of maining a role/champ or two was still a thing, but you did need to know how to play every role.

Now you can get away with only knowing two roles, support+X for perma autofill immunity, or accept that you need to know all roles to a playable degree, much like previous seasons.

WoonStruckNov 23, 20161 votes

Meanwhile, prior to season 6, we all had to have experience in all roles because it came down to pick order and how much the people matched with you were willing to work with your demands.

Tbh, I see nothing wrong with auto-fill due to that alone. Its basically the same now (slightly longer queues, which would be massive without auto-fill), but the majority of the time you will get specifically one of your two best roles.