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Should Shyvanas Passive Should Be the Best in the Game?

AIQ·8/9/2018, 5:23:08 PM·7 votes·2,013 views

TLDR: Shyvanas passive is far weaker than similar champions, but much harder to get and can be lost. It should be high value each since she can max get 5 on perfect games.

There are few a champions tied to objectives in their kits. Rengar and Kindred are the best comparisons.

Rengar requires a take-down on each champion once for a 20AD + (25% Bonus AD ) and 30/30 for Kha. I would say that is solid value for a passive the flat AD alone is worth 700 Gold and the ratio can be worth much more for instance 200 bonus AD = 50. This is definitely good value for a Passive.

Kindred requires collecting marks, from either specific camps which get harder as the game progresses or champions. I think that 8 Marks is not unreasonable for a general game and 4 for a bad game. At 4 Kindred gets A range increase, 20 ATKSP after Q, 2.5 HP damage on W and 2.5 Missing hp on E. This is doubled at 8. I think that is pretty solid and by the way if you are snowballing, you don't ever have to stop scaling.

For the amount of work these passives require, I think they are fairly placed, but Shyvana well...

She starts the game with 10% more damage to dragons 5 Armor and 5 Mr, this increase by 5 per Dragon take-down. On average games last long enough for 3 dragons if its very competitive, 4 for a sneaky early take and 5 if a (notice I said "a") team is dominating. Meaning Shyvana can get up to 20/20 on average 25/25 on early sneaks, and 30/30 if dominating!! But is that really all that much? A null cost 450 gold and gives 25 MR and 300 for a cloth at 15 so on average about 1000 gold? Wasn't just the base stats of of Rengars 700?

While actually taking down the Dragon is by no means difficult controlling the objective is to find a safe period to do it.(Ask TSM) On top of that Shyvana can LOSE her passive completely even if it's just because bot or mid is losing their lane and Shyvana is playing perfectly. While Kindred can lose a stack of her passive as well, she can try again Shyvana cannot. Once 1 of the ~5 dragons spawns are taken she will not get it ever again. Kindred can keep trying for a scuttle all game. Shyvana does not stack off elders by the way in case some are wondering

So she has one of the hardest passives to get, it can be taken from her, and its not that strong? Graves dashing forward gains more than her all be it timed, but fight can be decided before it goes down.

Potentially she can either have a passive that... Benefits her whole team, like the one that was on the PBE a while ago that amps up the Dragon buffs. Has a Strong like almost tripled value of current first stack and less value each subsequent stack. Has each stack be about 75% more value than current so about 9 and maybe some HP. Or just revert the Dragon element and give her a normal one.

Shyvanas passive is unfair that if I lose all the dragons she has a 5/5 useless passive, and if she gets 4 or even 5 she still gets blown up quickly instead of something super powerful. if people think the rest of her kit is so loaded that she needs a weak passive, I can elaborate on that too, but I made a post 5 times longer than this that had over 3k views over 3 tries and it for 5 comments so I don't think people like very long post.

Thank you for reading.

28 Comments

AIQ8/9/2018, 6:12:39 PM5 votes

While she is no where near top level duelist, what does Kogs or any free passive have to do with it? They get theirs for free, Shyvana doesn't the only valid comparison is that Shyvanas should be worth a lot more than Kogs just due to her having to work for it.

Warlord Rhinark8/13/2018, 3:16:39 PM3 votes

Even Garen's W's passive effect is better than Shyvana's passive.

AIQ8/9/2018, 5:49:42 PM3 votes

Her Q is an AA reset that deals little damage all game, procing PTA is the only perk to it. Her W can be strong but since it's a DOT with comparable damage to most other damage dealers it's actually worse for most fights. Her E is also weak with out levels early. Compared to like trundle noc or graves. Her ults stat gain is a joke. Her kit is very weak actually and loses a lot of duels. These changes would not make her early or even mid game better just late. They still have no effect if she loses the stats and I was not eluding to only resistance as an option.

Profirix8/9/2018, 7:52:50 PM2 votes

Shyvana has been utterly ignored since season 2. She got buffed, slightly reworked, and then nerfed because junglers were clearing too fast. Every single jungle nerf has hurt Shyvana more than most because of her farm-centeric playstyle. Riot has absolutely no plans to adjust jungle this preseason and I doubt they have any plans to make Shyvana any more viable. The poor champ is destined to sit in the trash heap of "why play her when X can do her job 10x better."

It sickens me. A champ with 0 cc and only an MS boost to stay with her targets should be significantly more powerful than your average bruiser but she isn't. She has one of the shittiest and most matchup-dependent passives in the game that is completely dependent on your opponents and the skill of your team.

The extent of her skill expression is dodging skillshots while Burnout is active. That is about it. Otherwise you run at the enemy, hope they can't blow you up in volley (good luck) and ult + E on their face, hopefully taking about half their health in fireball damage.

Profirix8/22/2018, 3:03:48 PM2 votes

Shyvana suffers from old age. Her kit was designed in an era when the average skillcap involved when to and when not to press your buttons to stun/kill someone. The most relevant skill Shyvana players need to learn is when and where to use the dragon fireball and when or when not to engage. That is about it. Otherwise you are just stat-checking your opponent.

This presents a major problem in this day and age when every champion has dashes, displacements, stuns, knockups, invisibility, movement speed buffs, % damage executes (Pyke I am looking at you). Running at your opponent just doesn't work anymore unless you are a brick wall (and even then you often just die). Against immobile champions she does very well, and that is where Riot is probably hung up (if they even care).

Linna Excel8/9/2018, 7:56:44 PM1 votes

I think Shyvana's passive should be tied to taking towers instead of dragons. That'll encourage her players to focus in on the primary objectives and force them to learn the game.

z63XnLCMwX8/9/2018, 5:40:58 PM1 votes

She has a very strong melee dueling kit. If she get anymore resist buffs, she'd be oppressive. The most useless passive in the game would have to go to kog maw.

AIQ8/10/2018, 3:23:48 PM1 votes

Unfortunately I get that vibe, even when I posted a legitimate bug with her old range E it was ignored. I hope that at some point a Rioter comes in and just says, "we hear you and are working on it in the near future! Stay tuned" Unrealistic, but hopeful. :(

AIQ8/13/2018, 4:11:48 PM1 votes

And he has a million true damage ult lol