Player Behavior Design Values: Reform (More Context)

RiotRiot Sweet·12/18/2014, 4:17:46 AM·11 votes·5,337 views
Player Behavior Design Values: Reform * /r/leagueoflegends

Here is the Original Blog Post.

Lyte has provided some more feedback on this one. See below!


"That is exactly my point. The reduced reports don't mean reduced toxicity. It could be reduced reports because the season's over, because people play less now that it's near Christmas, because finals happened, or less reports because people were legitimately removed. Who knows which it is. And personally, I don't think that the reports correlate to toxicity at all, since nobody ever gets reported or punished for toxic behavior, just toxic words. Do whatever you want, as long as you don't speak."

#Lyte:

We often see feedback that we don't provide enough context in some of our blogs or posts about player behavior, and that's valid. However, we generally don't go nitty gritty on a piece that millions of players are going to read because only a small % of players are going to care about the academic rigor behind the statistics.

In academic talks at universities or GDC, you'll often see me go into pretty extreme detail on some of the numbers behind experiments, and you'll want to look up those if you are interested in the nuances.

To answer your question, we don't just measure reports when measuring toxicity. We have numerous ways of measuring toxicity including sentiment analysis, which analyzes chat logs in real time to determine the level of toxicity in a particular game's chat log. In this particular blog post, we're referring to the fact that extreme toxicity (for example, specifically games where someone uttered a racist, homophobic, sexist remark or death threat) went down. We can measure this through sentiment analysis which crawls chat logs and identifies whether these phrases show up in the game.

To address your concern about seasonal changes, actually that's a pretty simple problem and numerous analysts normalize out seasonal changes by comparing any influxes they see from previous years and compensating for that in the current report. For example, we generally see changes in reports around September. For people who are currently students, that shouldn't be a surprise :)

Finally, to your last point, verbal toxicity and gameplay toxicity are both punished--you don't need to speak to be punished for gameplay toxicity. I am not sure why you believe that reports only correlate to verbal toxicity. Intentional feeders, Elo Boosters, RAF abusers, etc are all banned daily from a combination of reports and other systems.

"I got Ranked restricted yesterday and had to play Draft Pick, its terrible. The amount of toxicity is incredible. I tend to flame in heated up situations and am not an angel myself, but the amount of verbal harassment in Draft Pick at the moment is insane even for my standards."

#Lyte:

You mentioned you tend to flame up in heated situations, and I think that's part of the problem you are experiencing. We do find that players who might be toxic themselves experience more toxicity in their games, and actually do create more toxicity in the players they play with.

"I wonder what the percentage increase in toxicity in normal draft was due to all the toxic players being forced to play that. I mean it makes sense that toxicity is lower in ranked when you force all the toxic people to play another game mode."

#Lyte:

We're monitoring Normal Draft extremely closely to ensure that there isn't a meaningful increase in toxicity.

The key that makes this system different than traditional Prisoner's Island designs where you place all toxic players on a separate matchmaking island is that the majority of players in Normal Draft are still neutral to neutral positive.

By slowly and intentionally introducing a very small minority of players who may be toxic, and ensuring that they are also chat restricted allows us to ensure that Normal Draft never actually becomes a Prisoner's Island.

One of the key things we're also watching out for is how do players behave in Ranked Mode after being through a ranked restriction? Is the behavior better than before, or worse? So far we're seeing pretty positive signs that the feature is doing well.

Player Quotes: "I know of numerous people that report everyone, in every game, just to f*** with the system." Player Response: Wouldn't this just flag their account to ignore their report submission. Pretty sure Riot has said before that false reports do that to you.

#Lyte:

This. If you report inaccurately, your reports just end up worth nothing to all systems in the game.

"They don't show any data. They just make claims. Without their data being public who knows what the hell they are talking about. Besides, with Riot's PR department, you got to take everything with a grain of salt."

#Lyte:

Feel free to come to one of our university talks or GDC talks if you are in the area. Last year, we did a tour of Boston universities such as MIT and Harvard, and this year we'll be doing MIT/Harvard and adding some schools such as UCLA/USC/UC Irvine potentially.

If you want to see the full blown experiments and data behind the studies you'll have to come to one of those talks, because that's the audience that we share that level of detail with.

15 Comments

Zielmann12/18/2014, 4:22:47 AM8 votes

Y'all should actually use your forums when discussing things like this, at least as the main venue. It's a little strange that all the discussion happens on a third-party site, and we just get a short summary and link to the discussion on the official boards. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Make the discussion to answer the questions here, and link it back to the third-party site so players can come here to actually talk about it.

NekoTipcat12/18/2014, 5:52:45 AM2 votes

Gonna copy paste here for hopes of a rioter answering

"Skill improvement and ladder progress -- Playing to get better at the game and have fun climbing ranks" " Playing to get better at the game" This is where everyone drops the bomb, because if you try to help wether it's in a nice tone or a cruel tone they don't take it in and only backlash it. So please Lyte where does the "playing to get better at the game" come in?

If the community can't take criticism, and I might be toxic but my toxicity usually comes from me trying to help someone and then they backlash it in my face so hard. So I'm just supposed to stand there and take his shit? When all I wanted to do is help him so he doesn't do that mistake and at the same time help me by correcting his mistake that he might do 10 times or 1 time, this is in order to make us win not because I'm downlooking or consider myself the best or better or to just be outright cruel and make him feel bad about his mistake it's about making us win which is the point even though you can't win every game.

"have fun climbing rank" It's not fun getting shit only for offering advice or telling the person don't do that since it's obviously not working. I think this is a step in the right direction but it's far from good.

Hiemdol12/18/2014, 6:41:51 AM2 votes

It is really awesome to see some more exposure on the work being done to help the negativity in the community. It was only after reading some of the posts over the last day or two about some of the number surrounding the evolving player reform systems did i realize I have not muted anyone in weeks. Some of that may be random chance, but it is awesome to think some of the community is reaching a more sportsman like place.

I have wondered though, as much as I really love league it has a bad reputation in a lot of places as being a very unfriendly community. How long might you guess it will take exposure about the changes to make a difference in the perception of toxicity?

Also are any of the talks in the OP presented on the internet in video form, or are they only live attendance for assorted reasons? If no, are there any transcripts or articles summaries of the data might be found. I am not opposed to tracking down academic journals if those are the only places I can find some of this information.

Then finally, thank you to the entire player behavior team for working to making a stronger community for all of us, and sharing some of the thoughts behind the work happening.

Deathless81C12/18/2014, 8:16:24 AM2 votes

Will this include not lying to players about punishment reviews anymore Sweet?

Raptamei12/18/2014, 10:35:50 AM2 votes

People don't report to get the person banned but to make that warning pop up.

And if you have a legit reason to report, they see it and revenge report you.

CoolKnightST12/18/2014, 11:16:51 AM1 votes

If you report inaccurately, your reports just end up worth nothing to all systems in the game.

So basicly if you often send reports. The players you reported will never get punished. Would explane the percentage of non toxic players in the game. I often play draft & I often have to report people for verbal abuse. So basicly my report is worth nothing.

The best example was one of my friends. He was extreem toxic but it took you whole year to figure out his punishment. After his punishment ended he's showed improved behavior. That's a really big delay. I don't believe it's only the delay that was the problem their.

It's fine that the report is worth less if the player is toxic themself. But the system currently feels lke it isn't buildup this way. If the player is false reported the worth of his report goes down. But system doesn't correct the worth of the report if that case is corrected. It's just the same way the other way arround: If the player is currently not set toxic but the only reason why this doesn't happend is because the other players report doesn't have to priority value because they got false reported. This player will never set on toxic until a hugh amount of reports where send to him. Sometimes this can make a differents for about 50 games or something. It's really a crazy value to deal with.

I really hope the tribunal can take these cases into their workflow.