Macrogame and lategame is dead and I miss it.

Tundra Hunter·6/15/2018, 10:19:42 PM·47 votes·13,323 views

From ASK RIOT this week:

"Some of my favorite champs in the past have been the ones with simple, more straightforward kits and gameplay: old cho’gath, old swain, old taric. Are there any plans to make new champions with simple and easy playstyles?

Simple, straightforward champs have a lot of pros and cons, but overall we agree that they are an important and fun part of the LoL roster. The big benefit is that it opens up a more decision-based and less input-mechanics-based playstyle that’s really appealing to some types of players (especially new ones). A cost and common drawback is that they’re often much more powerful in low elo play, so when balanced, they end up being a non-viable option in higher levels of play. Simple champions can also devolve much more quickly into “stat check” gameplay when they’re snowballed ahead or behind because they don’t have enough tools to outplay their opponents.

To answer your original question—we will likely not be adding a lot more of the “old Taric” style of champions to the game because we think that the amount we have right now is serving that niche pretty well. In the cases of VGUs, we are trying to keep the simple champs simple when we can. I think Warwick was a good example of this, where we made a lot of good changes to his kit without pushing it into a high mechanics space."

uh? More decision-based appealing to new player? Is it a joke or a typo? New player obviously don't know a thing about macro game, but they do want the fun of mechanic-based playstyle.

I am an old player (I am 30 y/o, I play since season 3) and I like simple kit to play macro........ perhaps because I feel I can't compete skill wise with young players, and also I have more knowledge and experience and thus love to focus on macro.

About simple kit being strong in low elo and weak in high elo... I think this is such an over-simplification and/or the way Riot want to see it / justify it. A simple example is Annie, who was very strong in competitive for a while....... despite her very simple kit. But she wasn't OP in low elo.

Old ww (pre-rework) wasn't OP by any mean in low elo (wasn't played in high elo either). I loved his kit. It was so simple and so powerful for macro game, and with obvious counterplay. You had to press w to give a AS buff to your team... you can't be simpler... but that was great for macro; for all objectives (drakes, baron, turrets, inhibs). The E was perma MS (not only out of combat toward enemy champ), which allowed to go in and out of fight and think more about positioning during long teamfights... whereas now it's just all in. The ult had a clear counter: any cc or a qss.

Now games are 23 min on average at high elo, whereas it was supposed to be "about 45 min". There's no late game anymore, mid game barely matter anymore, everything is decided in the early game. And it's mostly decided by skill / pick, not macro.

I miss the old league, with simple kits / macro game / early - mid - late game

EDIT: Watching some LCS games now, seems like there's a lot of new macro! (new comps and strategies). Which is awesome. I still miss simple kits, late game, and longer teamfights.

22 Comments

Teridax686/16/2018, 3:44:39 AM9 votes

I agree that lack of macro-oriented gameplay has been a long-standing issue in League. While I don't think simple kits are necessarily automatically more macro-oriented (some champions really are just basic), I do think that the near-totality of League's new champion kits for years now have been way too focused on mechanics-based gameplay over anything else. We have far too many champions focused on twitch reactions, perfectly executed fraction-of-a-second comboes, and general quick, flashy plays, but virtually none focus anymore on planning for more than even just a few seconds. By contrast, it's not difficult to find macro-oriented champions in games like Dota 2 or HotS (if only because Dota 2 is super macro-oriented).

While it's okay for League to forge its own path and go in a different direction from its competitors, the net result of this design mentality is now a game where fights end way too quickly, and often feel both unfulfilling and frequently uninteractive. When practically every champion is both designed and balanced around being able to make game-changing plays in a fraction of a second, the game essentially gets changed in a whole bunch of different ways in the first few moments of a fight, where everyone's making big plays all at once. The net result is chaos, and a pacing to fights where the win is awarded to whoever shoots first, rather than whichever team played better over a duration where individual plays could stand out more. As such, it might be better if Riot pulled back a little, and tried to diversify some of its roster by making their gameplay more tactical or strategic overall.

Kanzaki Ranko6/16/2018, 8:22:59 AM4 votes

You have consistently peaked low platinum for many years now so I doubt that it makes a difference in your case. Macro doesn't even matter until like diamond 2

Z3Sleeper6/16/2018, 8:59:34 AM2 votes

Old WW wasn't op in low elo cuz they nerfed the ever-loving hell out of him. Prior to those nerfs he most definitely was a low-skill pubstomper.

And if you want macro-based play then just play Yorick. That's why I play him. Low mechanical skill but a ton of macro knowledge is needed for this champ to work.

Slice n Dice em6/16/2018, 12:27:22 PM2 votes

Now games are 23 min on average at high elo, whereas it was supposed to be "about 45 min". There's no late game anymore, mid game barely matter anymore, everything is decided in the early game.

Nopes, it was 31 mins at high elo and 34 to 36 mins for lower elo on average before Patch 5.20.

Which was a good time duration for an average game of lol, it had all game phases early, mid and late game. I just wish I could get to play that game again. Change is good but league became a casual game now. I just wish they introduced a turbo mode separate from the original game(before patch 5.20), so that who liked long duration games could enjoy that, and those who liked shorter games could enjoy this now turbo mode.

JRobin316/16/2018, 4:23:10 PM1 votes

"Macrogame and lategame is dead and I miss it."

But... but aren't you happy that average game time is ten minutes less than it used to be?

No... no, I'm not happy about that.

But... if you outplay your opponent mechanically in a skirmish, you gain the advantage!

You mean I get to snowball the game and macro play and late game don't matter because of stat checks? #triggered

Jarring6/16/2018, 4:35:55 PM1 votes

play dota or Heroes of the storm. Heroes of the storm is pretty much completely macro based.

Power Cosmic6/16/2018, 6:20:31 PM1 votes

Riot seems to forget that this game has far more in common with a sports game than a fighting one.

Attticus Finch6/16/2018, 8:53:59 PM1 votes

"Why can't I just farm all game and then use my stats to murder everyone?"

Because that's shit game design. It promotes non-interactivity in what's supposed to be a team game and is feast-or-famine by its nature. Stat-based point and click champions are always oppressive when they're ahead or overturned and useless dogshit when they're behind or weak.

Have you tried playing DotA2? It caters to the exact playstyle you desire. Pick a carry, farm creeps for 40 minutes then 1v9 with point and click AoE stun nukes for the rest of the match.

InfinitexMortal6/16/2018, 10:12:41 PM1 votes

Further proof Riot doesnt have any idea what they are doing. Doubt they even play their game above a bronze level.

BigFBear6/17/2018, 4:21:14 AM1 votes

"I am an old player (I am 30 y/o, I play since season 3) and I like simple kit to play macro"

Same here (33 y/o). Luv those simple champs like Voli. But yeah, you are right. I miss late- and macrogame too.

MasterDClone6/17/2018, 4:53:50 AM1 votes

ww was op lower elo this is prework he was liiterally the best jungler to climb out of bronze with because of how little skill he too to play