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Let's Talk About Talon

Prospector Pete·6/17/2018, 9:41:02 PM·16 votes·7,206 views

Why is Talon allowed to exist in his current state? In this current one-shot meta, I'd have to say that Talon is probably the worst offender in terms of the problems of insanely high damage. There are a multitude of problems with him right now:

  1. Passive does insanely high damage (200% Bonus AD ratio). While it does a ton of damage, Talon rarely even needs to proc it thanks to the high damage on his other abilities, so it's really only useful for getting that juicy first blood needed to scale uncontrollably.
  2. His Q is a very long targeted leap that can be very frustrating to play against thanks to its fast travel time and unexpectedly long range. If you're already in melee range, the damage is massively amplified to the point where even at level 1 (if he takes Q instead of W) it alone does about a third of the laner's health.
  3. W hitbox. Please fix it. The ability really isn't that bad otherwise, although the slow can be annoying, but fix the hitbox. It's probably the most misleading hitbox in the game.
  4. E needs an actual cooldown. Not a increased per wall cooldown, but a cast cooldown. Talon, especially early game, rarely needs to jump over the same wall every couple of minutes, and this ability makes him untouchable when he wants to be. With its 2 second cooldown, there's not any way to catch him except hope he already wasted his jump on the wall he's going to.
  5. Stealth is annoying, and it doesn't help that Talon's ult also gives him a burst of movement speed. The damage on this is also incredibly high if you allow the blades to converge on one target.

Overall, I feel like his passive early on and his Q and Ult throughout the game are the biggest offenders in terms of his massive damage output. Before anyone says "this guy is just complaining because he got destroyed by a Talon": you are correct. But my last game isn't the only reason that I'm posting this, it just inspired me to. I have had many problems with Talon for a while now, and when it's not Zed mid lane, it's him. Something needs to happen with him, as his current state in this game is not healthy for anyone.

19 Comments

Troll for Trump6/18/2018, 4:43:27 AM7 votes

Passive does insanely high damage (200% Bonus AD ratio). While it does a ton of damage, Talon rarely even needs to proc it thanks to the high damage on his other abilities, so it's really only useful for getting that juicy first blood needed to scale uncontrollably.

...yes he does. He absolutely does. If you don't land the autoattack, you won't be able to kill most targets.

His Q is a very long targeted leap that can be very frustrating to play against thanks to its fast travel time and unexpectedly long range. If you're already in melee range, the damage is massively amplified to the point where even at level 1 (if he takes Q instead of W) it alone does about a third of the laner's health.

The range on Q is pretty tiny, especially on a squishy melee. 575. In melee his Q does maybe 1/6th of the laner's health.

W hitbox. Please fix it. The ability really isn't that bad otherwise, although the slow can be annoying, but fix the hitbox. It's probably the most misleading hitbox in the game.

No, it's pretty accurate compared to global ults, Blitz/Thresh hooks, Mumu Q, Leblanc's Chain, and a couple of other things. It has a delayed recall time too.

E needs an actual cooldown. Not a increased per wall cooldown, but a cast cooldown. Talon, especially early game, rarely needs to jump over the same wall every couple of minutes, and this ability makes him untouchable when he wants to be. With its 2 second cooldown, there's not any way to catch him except hope he already wasted his jump on the wall he's going to. He needs it at 2 lategame to actually get away from anything. Early game it is too short.

Stealth is annoying, and it doesn't help that Talon's ult also gives him a burst of movement speed. The damage on this is also incredibly high if you allow the blades to converge on one target.

I fail to see what's wrong with the ability other than you don't like a single part about it.

Overall, I feel like his passive early on and his Q and Ult throughout the game are the biggest offenders in terms of his massive damage output.

Absolutely. Because he only has 2 basic damaging abilities. It's compensation for not having dmg on E.

People really don't know how to play against Talon. It's not hard to dodge his W in lane, at all. His range is extremely short compared to ranged mid laners, and because of the linear nature of his basic abilities and telegraph on W , you know exactly what Talon is going to do and where he's going to move. Try actually playing him and you'll find his laning weaknesses.

1RiceBowl1x6/18/2018, 3:18:30 AM4 votes

Looks like someone doesn't know how to play against talon.
Complaining about his E just shows that. What you don't realize that his E is designed so he can't escape the way he came in. He also misses out on another damage abilities, which is where he gets his passive for damage. Complaining about his Ranged Q is understandable. IMO it's longer than it needs to be, but still when talon leaps onto you, you should realize that he loses a lot of damage because he didn't melee q you.
You also don't realize that when you pick talon mid, often times that means that your team will be mostly/full AD, which means if your team is smart you buy ninja tabis and probably also GA. If you don't do that you probably would've lost anyway. Picking talon top also means your team will lose out on a tank unless the jungler or support goes Tank.

If you are really having that hard of a time against talon, literally all you need to do is 1. Respect his damage, and 2. Play talon for a bit. Playing talon will make you realize how many areas he can be countered in, and also how other players counter him I feel you are unable to. That goes with any champion. Anyone an make a post on the boards complaining about a champ that the just got rekt by, and most of those posts are from people who don't know how to play against a champion and think he/she's Op. just stop complaining about it and learn to play the game.

420 grams6/17/2018, 9:45:33 PM3 votes

You said it yourself "in this one shot meta". If Talon can't one shot people in a one shot meta, he'll be useless. He's a squishy melee so when he tries to make a play if it takes more than one second, the adc already right clicked him twice and he's dead.

Morgy Morgy6/18/2018, 2:44:36 AM3 votes

fuck his E jesus christ i dont even care about the rest of his kit, his E is bullshit.

Laceration6/18/2018, 2:59:16 AM3 votes

Talon just needs a slight nerf to his R ratio. The problem with the stealth assassins in general is the lack of counter play to invis

Hayaishi6/18/2018, 3:55:49 AM2 votes

Talon is complete BS and lacks more counterplay than pre rework.

LatoyaFromTheBX6/18/2018, 3:07:53 AM2 votes

honestly, they should just revert talon with the only thing from his rework worth keeping is his W and Ult

Modl Ryden l6/18/2018, 5:42:09 AM2 votes

Before anyone says "this guy is just complaining because he got destroyed by a Talon": you are correct.

Okay so you obviously know what I'm about to say, so what room is there for me to discuss on in your post? Jeez.

  1. His new bleed mechanic is barrier between Talon's reward in damage and the player playing Talon's skill gap. It's easy to W > Q > aa but there are way more methods in proc'ing it. For Talon players, it gives them ways to play skillfully.

  2. His Q isn't that long of a range, it's about as long as a Grave's Basic Attack, 450 units (which is a lot shorter than his old E), and it follows through if you dash or flash while he's in mid-leap just like Warwick's Q.

  3. His W hitbox is very narrow, the only real punishment is the return, when it applies a slow and has mildly higher damage than the initial cast and opens up an opportunity to access his passive.

  4. The speed at which Talon leaps with his E is significantly reduced when he's still in combat and taking damage. So if you're a mage, who has ranged auto attacks and crowd control, it's very easy to slow down his escape. Once he's leaping and slowed, he's only forced to go in that one direction until he lands. He's basically locked until he hits the ground.

  5. You can predict where Talon's going to go with his ultimate. The stealth only lasts 2.5s where you can judge if he's a) going to leap on me or a teammate or b) escape. It's not that hard to judge.

Honestly though, if a lot of players on the boards would just swallow their cum-flavored pride of being a whatever class main they are and actually played classes that countered them and learned how they work, then they wouldn't be having such a hard time laning or playing against them.

Yuvn Ti6/18/2018, 4:47:21 AM1 votes

Talon back in season 7 made me stop playing mid. Back when Orianna was an S tier mid laner, I one tricked her and when I went versus a talon, I would go flash barrier, build 2nd item Hourglass and get ninja tabi, and unless I was under turret, I would always stand no chance. Even when underneath the turret, he would chunk me to 1/4th hp before more than 2 turret shots could even hit him. He's the reason I quit my favorite position. Fuck Talon.

Zeyphel6/19/2018, 7:49:24 PM1 votes

The more important things that needs to change in Talon's Kit his Q and R.

  • Make his Q Direction-Targeted, not Unit-Targeted and make its damage slighty lower. Also slow a little bit the speed with which the ability is executed.

  • Now R: Its movement speed bonus should be halved or removed because It already provides invisibility and massive damage.

Notice that I don't even consider that the damage on his R should be touched, but its movement speed bonus is just too much for a champion that has a 2s CD on E and already moves incredible fast through the map.

VelvetCrotch6/18/2018, 6:09:51 AM1 votes

Talon is way too strong atm for how easy his kit is and how flexible and map-present his playstyle is. Talon needs a few serious nerfs.

ZedUsanGovos6/18/2018, 2:05:01 PM1 votes

Personally, I disagree with your statements. However, as I'm glad someone's shitting on an AD Assassin other than Zed, please continue.

shockprimex6/18/2018, 1:27:46 AM1 votes

Yeah his Bs is 100x worse than Zed and Fizz. 1000x worse than Yasuo and Akali