Starcall and Rejuvenation

LIKES TO PÅRTY·Mar 19, 2018·33 votes·1,692 views

Can you make landing Soraka's starcall on multiple targets more rewarding like doubling the healing received by rejuvenation? [sg-soraka]

23 Comments

AlmightyMar 19, 201810 votes

In an age where League is so fast paced, my suggestion would be to revert Soraka back to her Season 5 state, without giving her back the ability to heal minions and pets, because, well, Rift Herald.

Sincerely, a seasoned Soraka main with nearly 500k Mastery points.

http://www.auplod.com/u/dpoula9d885.png

TeCoolMageMar 19, 20181 votes

TBH I wish Soraka could heal minions but not monsters or pets, for cheaper than the 10% health cost. Then they reworked enchanters to have more impact on the map than "pick AA based carry and attach to them permanently".

Would've let her be a split pusher :p

Teridax68Mar 19, 20181 votes

I would personally support this, if the game were adjusted to this kind of gameplay. I too personally dislike the fact that supports are basically made to rely on an allied champion at all times in order to be useful, and I think allowing them to use their utility on non-champions could enable some interesting gameplay, and potentially some solo laning potential. Soraka standing near Rift Herald and pumping utility into her for more pushing power I think could be an entirely viable strat, and we already have Lulu using minions to leapfrog Pix for a surprise Q. The main issue with this right now is that, more often than not, non-champions are so comparatively weak individually, bar the exception of Herald, that using utility on them often comes from misclicks than from deliberate plays. I even made a thread asking for Soraka to no longer be able to heal minions a few years ago specifically because of this.

SpecterVonBarenMar 20, 20181 votes

I miss being able to shield minions as Lulu.

HibekiMar 20, 20181 votes

You dont need to sign your forum post

-abraham lincoln

SpecterVonBarenMar 20, 20181 votes

Keep her new Q though. There is no way on God's green earth old Soraka would ever be able to use her old Q with today's burst. She'd get nuked as soon as she tried to get close enough to hit it.

AlmightyMar 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Keep her new Q though. There is no way on God's green earth old Soraka would ever be able to use her old Q with today's burst. She'd get nuked as soon as she tried to get close enough to hit it.

You're mistaking Season 5 Soraka for Season 2/3 Soraka. Season 5 Soraka has the exact same Q as today, but it dealt more damage in the center part, had a longer cast range, and healed Soraka instantly for every enemy she hit.

The old, original Starcall, i would NEVER want to see on Soraka again, not only, because it was not benefitial to her identity as a healer, but also, because it was a horrible ability for a Ranged champion.

http://www.auplod.com/u/dpoula9d885.png

KaìjuMar 19, 20189 votes

This used to be part of how it worked. Soraka's Q used to heal her instantly and a flat amount per enemy hit. It got changed to what it is now because Soraka woild often just Q two enemies in a fight and lose no health, this made bot very unhealthy to play against. I feel Soraka could use a bit of love right now, since that change was made back when Grevious Wounds was still only on old Morellos and Executioners. Now there is the new Morellos as well as Bramble Vest/Thornmail and as such Grevious Wounds is much more common. Add onto that the fact that shield supports are for the most part out shining healers, Raka could use a bit of health. I would say by either reducing the health or mana cost of W.

flibitydooMar 19, 20183 votes

technically it wasn't super instantly, while the healing part was instant, the heal projectile had a (very slow) travel time (that for some inexplicable reason could be blocked by windwall and absorbed by enemy braums).

I do agree that landing double Qs should be more rewarding as a form of skill expression.

And I'll be honest, Grievous wounds isn't that bad to deal with. The thing is, is that it doesn't stop you early game (because building into it early on is super inefficient and will straight up lose you fights early on because you just have inherently bad stats) and later on in the game, you can cancel out it's effects quite a bit with heal/shield power items (which is a good thing since you should only care about keeping targets alive, not about padding your healing done stat). (that being said I'd honestly prefer if they took out executioners calling and grievous wounds from morellos and just made a new type of boots that gave grievous wounds to damage dealt which would probably be a way healthier and less noobtrap way of implementing grievous wounds)

Also what mostly makes soraka feel bad right now (as someone that plays a lot of her) is

the removal of talisman of ascension which means she dies very easily to anyone who "wants" her to die (that on demand 45% movespeed steroid is very very helpful, even slow juggernauts are a super large threat now when warding objectives alone)
the removal of ancient coin quest reward- the one where getting a kill/assist would give you a coin worth 40 gold and a manacoin for 12% missing mana. Which is super helpful for those fights where you run out of mana. This bonus no longer exists. I wish it were back.

KaìjuMar 19, 20182 votes

You clearly play Not Mercy more than me but I can see what you mean. I like healers, and I like Soraka for it but trying to play more of her this season just feels super miserable.

Teridax68Mar 19, 20181 votes

Personally, I feel the old self-heal would be better than the current one, if her Q got some nerfs to its range. The problem with Soraka's Q then is pretty much the same as its problem now, in that it lets her poke from a relatively safe distance, and get some pretty uninteractive healing out of it in the process. Trouble is, the Rejuvenation mechanic currently encourages her to play even more passively, since it pushes her to avoid engaging in combat altogether. In an environment where Grievous Wounds had much less presence, she'd be significantly more frustrating to play against, in addition to being fairly boring to play. Because of this, going back to sustain that helps her in combat, while preventing her from poking opponents altogether, could make her much more engaging and interactive.

KaìjuMar 19, 20181 votes

Would it make her more interactive if her W was a tether that she had to stay in range off and turning her into a pseudo battle mage or something? The health cost just feels so punishing, especially if you take any damage that removes all benefit of hitting Q for the heal.

Teridax68Mar 19, 20181 votes

I feel the reason why Soraka gets to self-heal in the first place is precisely because she takes damage, and the damage is there to make her put herself at risk. A tether definitely could also increase her risk, provided its range were short enough that her opponents could always have a good chance of reaching her. I agree that the self-damage is kinda meh in implementation, and it might be better to cut out that middle man altogether by having Soraka power up her healing by interacting with enemy champions instead.

KaìjuMar 19, 20182 votes

Since Soraka probably won't see a rework for a long time I now want a tank healer who's heal is a tether from enemy to ally, so they have to stay close enough to both and basically leeches life out of the enemy to heal an ally.

But yeah Soraka is a champ I really wanna like but she honestly feels like less of a dedicate healer than Nami. Like I've built full heal Nami and healed more on average than Soraka which to me just seems like an indicator of a problem.

JarodDempseyMar 19, 20183 votes

soraka has needed a rework since this fail one ruined her in 2013. She been trash to play as and against ever since and isnt worth putting effort into unless its a full rework.

SpaghettiVaseMar 19, 20182 votes

Was just thinking about this today, seems like it would be useful to try and bring this back as soraka is probably on the weaker end of enchanter supports due to her lack of reliable disengage and the cost of healing for her health. Of course healing will always be good, but just sitting back and using your W every time it's off CD isn't exactly interactive gameplay. Shit, most enchanters at least have the ability to make plays, or initiate.

HópeMar 19, 20182 votes

Sorakas winrate is in the middle of 51-52%. Any buff would put her over the top.

Krys StarMar 19, 20182 votes

They could have Starcall increase Rejuvenation's power by 20% per champion struck, 100% total if you hit all 5. This would add some reward to her, as well as giving her a nice oomph should she hit few or more. It'd also be great if Wish could remove Grievous Wounds before its application, as it once used to.

Grievous Wounds is in abundance, and easily accessible now, that playing Soraka isn't really as enjoyable and fun as it used to be. Players are smart in plat+, and they rush Executioner's in lane, then Bramble Vest and Morellos comes out and it just becomes so hard to keep up with.

BottleCapsterMar 19, 20182 votes

I'm kind of really confused by a lot of the comments here, particularly because while I do believe that Soraka could use some more tools to show skill expression, many of these suggestions are just straight buffs to Soraka, which in all honesty she doesn't need. If we want to encourage better skill expression from the champion that means we're going to need to give up some consistency in another area in order to make the expression more apparent.

Now to respond to OP first, I don't really think that Raka needs rewards for hitting multiple opponents, as more often than not you'll hit multiple enemies either incidentally to stop a particular target or because they've grouped up, seeing as Soraka doesn't have any types of Crowd Control to herd people together. What ends up happening here is that you just raw buff her ability to fight groups of people but not exactly in a way that encourages skill expression as much as punishing poor positioning on enemies. While her passive healing is probably the safest raw buff you could give her which doesn't break her inherently (Depending on the amount), the Multiple hits application is probably a bit to wide as while not small Soraka's Q is fairly decently sized.

In regards to bringing back some of Soraka's skill expression, my Go-To has always been focused on the original state of Soraka's Q post-rework, albeit with most of the more broken aspects (Multiple/Burst self-healing - 975 Range) kept as they are now. If I was doing a rework of Soraka I would definitely focus on Soraka's Q and Passive as main ways to encourage skill and reduce frustration when fighting her. For instance, say we reduced the ambient slow on Soraka's Q, but re-added the sweet-spotting mechanic of Post-rework Soraka, not giving the additional damage, but once again giving the double slow and maybe a stronger variant of Rejuv (Combined with broader changes to W to keep her healing in check). Lower slows on grazing shots makes Soraka better at peeling things that get in close, but only if she's able to land the significantly smaller ranged Sweetspot, but also improves Soraka's ability to keep targets in range for more Qs so long as she keeps aiming her Qs right. If we make W more Rejuv dependent we could improve the HoT effect, or maybe instead swap the current aspects of her healing, (HoT on non-empowered cast, Burst-heal when empowered) (Self-healing must remain HoT because you need to be able to burst the healer, she's made for Sustained fights, not burst).

Final and broader point to Soraka's current state though is that since the loss of Soraka's sweetspot mechanic (Since you only got the slow on Sweet-spotting), Much of Soraka's Skill expression has boiled down to proper use and leading of her Equinox ability. Soraka is my most played champion, and while I only have about 300k on her since I switch often between a trinity of characters, I feel like Soraka herself is a massive force to be reckoned with, especially once you understand how to utilize Equinox. Sure enemies who get really fed can pop you like a cherry, that's the trade off for playing the best healer in the game, but with good prediction and some fancy footwork, you'll find that Soraka is a lot trickier to take-down than you might assume.

(Also Just saying Soraka's Lv1 trading with Starcall is honestly oppressive. I love it, if you haven't tried playing Aggro with Soraka Qs, seriously, try it, it's glorious)

LIKES TO PÅRTYMar 19, 20181 votes

Wow thanks for all the responses all! :)

CasterGilgameshMar 19, 20181 votes

make her W go back to what it use to be before the original rework

Killer of Night9Mar 20, 20181 votes

What do you think about old soraka (season 2-4) W, passive, Q effect nowadays?

Passive increase heal by 1% every 2% missing heal (This passive can be replaced by high W heal but could reward more antipoke/burst heal instead of W armor proc)
Q effect every enemy hit would reduce the W cd (or better E too). With the actual Q this could work even better because she has to less risk to do it but it's hard to get multiple enemy (i would like a reward of 5/5.5/6/6.5/7% of enemy hit).
Replace the actual w with the old W with a good amount of healing but higher CD (I think one of soraka's issue it's the fact that she can perma heal her ally in lane or in trade so a high amount of heal could let her counter burst/poke but will be bad against sustained fight) Giving her back the fact that she can give armor (up it to 3-4s but reducing the amount like 15/20/25/30/35+ap scale). Mostly enchanter support has something that can burst ally stat/provide damage (Janna E Ad and passive,Lulu passive and W,Nami E and passive,Sona Q and E,Taric W armor) all this,maybe not taric,are strong and in a good spot while other enchanter (Rakan without xayah and Karma that she provide only ms but it's lost after 1,5 s while lulu E + W give the same thing but higher and better with passive +atk speed steroid) feel bad to play as peeler (actually karma is played similar to zyra as poke support and rakan is played as tanky like leona with zeke/censar for be something for his carry). I really liked old soraka (Enjoyed the old Q only in urf) and the actual one but having some battle stat instead of huge spam of heal would make her skill more reward (W armor Q cd reduction) without be a high problem (high CD heal) and with her counterplay (engage when W is down). The only thing that i'm Not sure is if it's better if she can heal herself with W again or maintain the Q rejuvenation mechanix for herself only/both of em. Maybe with the removal of rejuvenation on herself/ally (a less Cd would be good) What do you think?

AchillesODSTMar 21, 20181 votes

I dunno, I'm kinda on the fence about this one. On one hand shes arguably the best healer in the game, but she does it at the expense of her own health. Building max health items on her are bad because her W pulls from a % of her max health, meaning the more she has the more she loses. Shes slow to move around and countered by grabbing champs easily but she has rapid fire abilities that have a very low on mana cost and are essentially spam-able. Shes kind of a tough champion to figure out what to do with, whether you're trying to make her current kit work in a lethality/grievous ruled world, or trying to rework her to make her more expressive for us player's that main her.