Conqueror needs to go

pogcorn·12/25/2018, 1:40:49 AM·143 votes·24,115 views

Let's be real, conqueror is broken and needs to be removed or reworked.

Very few champs use it and for the few that do, they take it in all match ups, defeating its purpose. The initial intend for the keystone is for bruisers to deal with tanks. Because back then, tanks were actually viable and they used to stack bami/bramble/tabi to render any melee bruiser useless. lets not forget the whole point of keystone rune reforged is to give players flexibility and customization, instead of "we design specific runes for specific champ for every single game"


Champions that use it become extremely oppressive. Again, defeating its purpose as solution for bruisers to deal with tanks. When it was finally released, it pushed Aatrox to become tier 1 top laner. Jax, another conqueror abuser and stat check by Riot's definition, is also tier 1 top laner. Other than Jax, it's being heavily abused by a few champs as well, namely Irelia, Yasuo, Tryndemre, Yi, Riven, Darius, Fiora, Draven. What's the impression you get when you think of laning against most of these champs? Oppression.

If you are not a ranged champion, it's extremely frustrating when laning against above champs while they have Conqueror stacks up. It doesn't matter if you are a tank or another conqueror user. You know there is no way you can trade with them. They control the flow of the lane and pressure easily by just having Conqueror up. Notice a lot of the above champions don't even need Conqueror to deal with tanks. Yasuo Yi Darius Fiora have built in true damage/armor pen, irelia tryn riven jax are picked to blow up squishy carries & split push. Right now Conqueror is being picked to deal with tanks, blow up squishy enemies AND split push. ADC shouldn't be taking it and Last Whisper exists for a fucking reason. Most of these champs can do with or without Conqueror.

The reason why Conqueror users are so oppressive to play against is because of its instant availability and constant up time. Ever walking up to a jax/tryn/irelia hitting your tower and you see his conqueror up due to it being constantly refreshed? and you know if you walk too close you get jumped on and instantly blew up. Speaking as old Aatrox main, I knew Conqueror was bonkers when it got released. I kept quiet and abused as much as I could. Now that he got reworked so screw everyone else that still abuses this keystone; Conqueror gives lots of AD for no reasons at all and on top of that, it's very easy to proc it. Every other damaging keystone has some some kind of cool down, like comet, electrocute, grasp. PTA requires 3 autos on a single target. But for Conqueror, all it takes is 4 seconds of hitting minion to proc it like grasp but the only difference is that you can use its effect infinitely as long as you stay in combat with champions (except ranged user). It makes trading with Conqueror users impossible...but wait, what's the intended purpose of Conqueror again?


**Changing Conqueror is potentially a solution to balance many champions, but unfortunately Riot doesn't care about player experience enough to do anything about it. **Remember the pathetic 5 MS nerf to irelia as Rito's response to her high performance at worlds of 58% win rate? It did absolute nothing and she is still obnoxious to play against. And guess which tank busting keystone are people still taking to play her mid lane?

A famous Irelia main IreliacarriesU said that

Her problems definitely stem from conqueror. It has perfect synergy because it adds true damage to the mix on top of everything that she has. It makes it impossible to itemize against her in lane and makes her laning phase MUCH stronger. If you try playing her with PTA you will instantly notice the difference. It also allows you to burst much harder in team fights when its procced (which is easy to do because all u need to do is just auto a little or hold W before going in). It just makes her THAT good

Again, ICU is talking about a tank busting rune like some kind of 1v5 black magic


Tanks are gone and Riot has no intention bringing tanks back. Because they prioritize viewer experience at the cost of player experience. Riot doesn't care about competitive integrity anymore. They are going full HoTS and want a damage heavy meta as discussed in another thread, because in their opinion, clownfests are more fun to watch. I don't even need a proof for this, just look at how late game champs like Karthus is dominating games in the early games. Look at what they are doing to bring tanks back, by buffies Sejuani's DAMAGE to bring her back to meta? how little does Riot care about strategies anymore?


I'm not going to criticize without giving my take of solutions. I also believe by changing the way Conqueror works, it will promote diversity to keystone choices as well as shifting away from the mid top bruiser meta ever so slightly. My 2 takes on what can happen:

  1. Remove Conqueror
  2. Rework Conqueror: It still takes 4 seconds to get it ready. Bonus AD removed. True damage conversion from 20% flat ---> scaling (5% to 30%), conversion rate goes up for each stack earned in combat with enemy champion each second, max stack at 6 seconds in combat with champions. Stacks begin to drop each second if out of combat with champion for 3 seconds. Ranged champion cannot use this keystone.

The numbers or the mechanism are up for debate but the core idea is to make it a "tank busting keystone for bruisers and encourage prolonged fights" instead of the abomination we have right now. Thanks for reading


TLDR: in the bold sentences of each paragraph. Conqueror is busted and few champs take it in all match-ups. Riot forgot it's original purpose as tank busting rune.

125 Comments

GFREEMEN12/25/2018, 2:02:36 AM23 votes

Having melee attack refresh it makes is STUPID OP.

It was a bad idea when it first hit the PBE and its a bad idea now.

Krynnˉ12/25/2018, 4:31:41 AM14 votes

Don't even rework it, just bring back old Fervor, that's all us Conqueror using champion players want, we want our old keystone back. Balance it accordingly but it's alot easier to balance flat AD then it is to balance true damage.

Lemonfaace12/25/2018, 2:09:53 AM12 votes

I don’t think ranged champions shouldn’t be allowed to take Conqueror. The only ranged champion who uses it is Draven, so punishing the whole ranged roster over Draven isn’t fair.

The scaling you’ve proposed for a new Conqueror is a bit scary; 30% true damage in late game is absolutely menacing, and while it will make the keystone weaker early on, it will crush the competition later. 5%-20% seems slightly better if the bonus AD is removed. Passively-lethal true damage on bruisers is still annoying altogether though.

PrismalDawn12/25/2018, 2:09:42 AM12 votes

I agree.

There is no reason why a Yasuo with a dorans blade rushing an attack speed item (mind you no damage besides the blade) should be able to skirmish with everyone and chunk them throughout the fight.

Maybe remove the refresh for melee's or have it not stack when attacking minions.

ı Sona ı12/25/2018, 1:44:30 AM8 votes

Maybe the issue isn't conqueror at all. Have you tried using different champions in these match ups?

Beacon Academy12/25/2018, 4:58:28 AM7 votes

Runes as a whole need to be reverted.

Riot have proven time after time they are incapable of balancing 142+ different champions with 17 different keystones and five item passive like affects from the remaining 46 options.

Z3Sleeper12/25/2018, 3:20:38 PM5 votes

Only problem is we need an alternative. Bruisers have issues dealing with tanks, skirmishers do not. Yet skirmishers are the ones abusing it and making it seem overpowered.

Riven is an exception who does need it. Darius also suffers vs tanks without Conqueror despite his armor pen since he's 100% AD he's easy to itemize against.

But Yasuo (50% bArmor pen), Jax (MASSIVE DPS and mixed damage), Fiora (% health true damage), Irelia (massive DPS and mixed damage), Yi (massive DPS with on-hit true damage) really don't need it to function, it's just an added bonus that screws over tanks more than their kits were intended to.

Idk what to say about Tryndamere though. He needs it but he's just a bad design in the first place anyway.


Fervor is a nice alternative but not a definitive one. Darius, Yorick and Nasus for example can't utilize it anywhere near as well as, once again, skirmishers.

Yknow, as I'm writing this I'm just realizing that skirmishers are an issue. Nerf their resistance negation and shift the others' mixed damage much more towards physical damage so armor itemization does more to their damage. We don't need Jax and Irelia dealing essentially 50% magic damage.

Somebody Love Me12/25/2018, 5:07:59 AM4 votes

In Irelia's case, she was designed and balanced with Conqueror in mind. Ever tried using anything else on her? She basically fails as a champ. It's kinda sad.

AhhShucks12/25/2018, 5:52:23 AM3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Flurry Rush,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vOMbVhI6,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-25T01:40:49.615+0000) >They are going full HoTS and want a damage heavy meta

I never understand why going damage heavy keeps getting referred to as "going full HoTS"

I've played a LOT of HoTS, barring a few notable exceptions, killing a player in HoTS usually takes multiple characters, layered CC, and several seconds of time. Time to kill has always been MUCH shorter in LoL than HoTS.

Mael Jade12/25/2018, 8:48:00 AM3 votes

One problem in conqueror vs conqueror matchups: If one person falls behind and cant stack it up on minions they basically lost because they will likely die in less then the 4 seconds needed to even have a keystone

FSRER12/25/2018, 11:47:09 AM3 votes

I play jax, for a long time. As an example to what you say, that conqueror is used everywhere, you are right. Vs certain matchups, i liked to use press the attack (vs fiora, yasuo, irelia) matchups at which the enemy has no armor so conqueror is not necessary and...... yeah, it does not work anymore. Conqueror forced certain champions to abuse it due to press the attack being too weak. That is was I think at least.

Anchorit Wracaj12/26/2018, 2:09:52 AM3 votes

They nerfed the overgrowth in S9... So lmao..nerfing top deffensive runes..will turn just into more Conqueror abusers... Nobody gets it..like overgrowth is now trash.

ØrnnToGetTrolleÐ12/25/2018, 7:39:57 PM2 votes

RIP Fervor of Battle

The Dreamwalker12/25/2018, 10:36:16 PM1 votes

Honestly, Conqueror is a more OP version of FoB. I feel like Riot wants to bring back the old masteries (like the main ones, forgot their proper titles, was it keystones?). in form of keystones (or just runes in general), but they find ways of breaking them and making them too OP, or some cases, making weak versions of them in runes.

Conqueror is Fob with true damage.

Deathfire Touch is scorch in a really weak form.

Fleet footwork is Warlord's Bloodlust.

Phase is Stormraider's Surge, sort of.

Electrocute is obviously Thunder lords.

Stoneborn pact: Font of life.

Grasp of the Undying - Grasp of the Undying.

I mean, the old main keystones are still in the game in a mutated form. I really wish we would just revert to these old ones. I much preferred their bonuses and damage over these new ones. Especially since some were just for DEFENSE and not DEFENSE AND OFFENSE.

rayzo12/26/2018, 3:33:22 AM1 votes

I'm challenging your point that very few champions use this keystone. Here are all if not most of the conqueror users, please tell me if I miss any:

Camille Darius Draven Fiora Irelia Jax Kled MasterYi Olaf Renekton Riven Tryndamere Udyr Yasuo

It's a decent number of champions. Do keep in mind some of these champions might take PtA but they still do take Conqueror on occasion. I also didn't mention a few champions that can take Conqueror in some pretty specific situations but is still viable on them.

However I do agree with your main point that Conqueror is problematic. Not to the extent; though, that it should be focused on over some other issues, like for instance the fucking disgusting abominable restart loop that happens every damn time I start the game up. They need to focus on that first.