Ekko Has Among the Worst Late Game Assassin Win Rates - IDEAS

koochario·6/3/2018, 9:12:12 PM·48 votes·20,968 views
Ekko Middle Counter Picks, Builds, Runes & Stats * Patch 8.11 * Diamond+

Despite being a champion frequently used by one-tricks, Ekko's Diamond+ late game win rate is at a measly 46%. Unlike most assassins, such as Talon (highest First Blood rate), Zed or Katarina, Ekko is weak early. His mid game is good (a necessity for an assassin) but it's nothing out of the ordinary. There are plenty of assassins with a stronger early, stronger mid game and stronger late game. Outside of the assassin class, there are even more examples of this. Even in terms of roaming, there are better options, such as Aurelion Sol or Talon.

Some other late game assassin winrates from Diamond+: Fizz - 49% (already stronger than Ekko after level 3) Diana - 52% LeBlanc - 51% Ahri - 50% (very well rounded) Zed - 52% with a whopping 12% play rate Katarina - 51% (insane snowball potential early to mid game) Talon - 47% (not too far from Ekko but he has among the strongest early games and has a better mid game on top of it too) Kassadin (he is weaker early and mid game though so he deserves it) - 51% (thought this would be higher tbh)

While not the hardest to pick up and play to a basic level, Ekko's an extremely difficult champion to play truly well. The way his kit meshes together and interacts with itself, terrain, positioning and other kits makes the path to mastery never ending. He also has to plan ahead of time, know all the dash locations, all the escape routes, always keep track of his R, predict enemy movements etc. Ekko also has a lot of strategic options he needs to consider (when to split, when to group, when to flank and how etc.). He's very enjoyable for me to play but I don't feel rewarded in the same way as when I picked up other champions, such as Fizz.

With all the effort needed to play Ekko to a high level, I think he deserves a late game at least on par with other assassins. His late game used to be far better and with more utility (slow on his passive) but tank Ekko led to nerf after nerf. I understand the reasoning behind this to an extent. Tank Ekko should be a viable option but not dominant. Either build has its pros and cons but even the existence of tank Ekko highlights some problems with Ekko's kit. You don't see tank Zed or tank Talon. Ekko's damage is not reliable (or as high as something like Diana) and his abilities are rather telegraphed. Tank Ekko takes this and says "I'll probably rarely land W if they're smart and my kit lacks the burst or DPS of a traditional assassin so I may as well be at least a bit useful in a more reliable way with my utility and frontlining ability." This style exists to reduce some of the issues Ekko has and trades damage for it. In his current iteration, that's fair and far from being overly strong but late game buffs should probably not incentivize tank Ekko. As a melee skirmisher, Ekko does need some defense to function but he should be a carry first.

Current late game issues:

  • His split push is ineffectual vs the current crop of Conqueror top laners such as Jax, Camille, Irelia, Yasuo etc.
  • His teamfight contribution is really hit or miss and depends more on his opponents making serious mistakes than Ekko's own ability. Making the right predictions and playing around teamfights well is part of the skill to Ekko so I am not saying his reliability should be improved. However, his high points probably do need a little help.
  • His DPS is actually quite low for how much damage he tends to build. His burst is fine if you land everything but after that you're just done and for other assassins such as Diana or Fizz, you can still do quite a lot just with your kit's inherent DPS. This is one of his biggest problems and part of it isn't even about hitting abilities. His animations are so long on everything. While your Q's floating, another champion may have used 2 abilities during that animation.
  • CC ruins him and denies him the most important parts of his kit. He can't deal with bruisers and other tanky champions well and this goes back to his lack of good DPS.

Solutions/Ideas: I think if AP Ekko's able to isolate a target and stick to them, he should have more DPS.

The first thing to try is to raise the AP ratio on his % missing HP damage for W. Change it from 3% to 5%. This will let him more effectively finish off bruisers and tanks when he builds like a carry. Vs squishies, it actually doesn't matter almost at all because he tends to overkill them late game (especially at those HP levels). They also don't build as much HP so % missing HP damage is not as important. This indirectly buffs his split pushing (though not enough to make him competitive vs most tops) and makes his teamfighting a tiny bit more reliable & versatile since now it will not be as large of a mistake to try to finish off a tanky champion. Ekko's not a true assassin. He's more of a skirmishing champion and this kind of change lets him be more useful when he's in the thick of things.

Alternative idea (my favorite but needs more testing than the first): Buff the ratio on Phase Drive with R levels. Why not Q? Q is a good waveclear tool and a buff would encourage a safer more poke oriented style. I want him to be more rewarded for when he goes in with a high AP build, not when he sits on the sidelines.

The way the E change would work is that he would get 5% more AP per R level but instead of starting at 40% AP, it would start at 35%. For example, at level 6, Phase Drive would get a 40% AP ratio, 45% at level 11 and 50% by level 16. After all, the technology that makes him move through time is also what lets him dash so it makes sense that they'd get better together. :)

In terms of balance, I don't want him to get a +10% ratio right away since I'm trying to gate that power to mid and late game. AP ratio bumps always weight power more towards late game but I think this makes the distinction even clearer and makes his transition into late game smoother. It's still a relatively minor change but it's a start and can be tweaked as needed. For example, maybe Riot finds that this is not enough and they want to shift power differently. They could make it start at 25%, go to 35% at level 6, 45% at level 11 and 55% at level 16. It's a nice balance lever.

BTW: I realize that his overall win rate is average right now but this is not a good sign. It's a pretty good meta for Ekko since team comps aren't very tanky overall and games rarely reach a true late game. Given this meta, it's actually surprising that his win rate isn't a lot better. Some of his biggest issues don't come to light right now. This doesn't mean they shouldn't be addressed. Considering the state of his early game (somewhat safe but weak), he should feel more impactful late game.

In general, I think Ekko's the type of champion which shouldn't fall off. He's all about outsmarting opponents and pulling off flashy plays. The idea that you become a liability just because the game hits a certain point doesn't sit well with me for a champion with Ekko's style, lore and gameplay pattern.

84 Comments

Dont Blìnk6/3/2018, 10:03:11 PM17 votes

Genuinely as an Ekko one trick I thought the same thing about buffing the E, since his damage is pretty unreliable (part of the reason to go tank).

Though, what assassin doesn't get ruined by CC? I don't think Ekko is special in that regard lol.

SnugglePuggle946/4/2018, 1:30:11 AM10 votes

Just to clear things up:

  1. Ekko is a skirmisher, like Yasuo, more than he is an assassin. He has a form of CC and a shield, which assassins don't have.

  2. Diana is NOT an assassin, she is a diver that plays like one because Riot messed up when creating her. She has a shield and no escapes, which assassins don't have shields and have plenty of escape tools.

  3. Ahri is a mage.

Bazooka Blade6/3/2018, 9:27:29 PM6 votes

Rumble late game is 31% win rate be grateful

Hyquiem6/3/2018, 10:14:00 PM6 votes

Well what do you expect for the lack of magic penetration how is ekko suppose to use his abilities. Especially when assasins take penetration builds magic penetration is a rare stat in the game for ap assasins,

Mystery MisterYi6/4/2018, 1:11:14 AM5 votes

Why're you looking at Diamond+ as opposed to Plat+ or Master+?

Diamond+ includes the top 2% of the playerbase, which is a small sample size compared to the remaining 98% (something you've been pointing out in multiple comments).

If you want the _best _ Ekko players, use Master+ If you want data more relevant to the remaining 98% of the playerbase, use Plat+ or Gold+

I don't know much about Ekko's win rates, but looking only at the top 2% is like when Riot balances the game around LCS.

zecastar6/3/2018, 11:14:21 PM5 votes

It would be nice to see Ekko in competitive matches again. I don't think I've seen one in over a year now. It seems that people at the very top don't value him much. I know of no Challenger Ekko mains but then again, I didn't research it very deeply. Shiphtur plays him sometimes for fun but only with a 50% win rate and he's definitely not a one trick. On the other hand, I know there are many Sol mains in Challenger, some Talon mains, Kat mains etc.

ChaosThief6/3/2018, 11:51:15 PM4 votes

As a person who used to play Ekko in pretty much every situation, and who still has the highest mastery on Ekko (though granted, it isn't a lot...) my personal biggest issue is his W.

It feels really bad to use in most cases. Either you have to use it out of vision, stay out of vision, and then close the distance on them just as the stun field deploys, or it misses laning phase since they just run away if they see you running up to them. Against any sane opponent, if they see you going in, they just back off the moment they see it. Past laning phase, either the opponent is going to be in the area anyway, or it's just a delayed shield for Ekko (which really doesn't help all that much, since it has too short of a duration to block anything outside the realm of burst.)

I will admit I feel like I have forgotten how to play Ekko, since the opponents I play against play very safely, and even if I can land a full passive rotation, I still feel like I get outdamaged as I try to run away. I don't necessarily believe that his damage is too low, I believe that it's a mix of his initiation and safety being too weak for what he's supposed to do. You basically only have your W for safety, since your ultimate is either to get out or to be saved for an AOE nuke, and his W doesn't feel reliable enough against opponents who know what they're doing.

TL:DR; W feels like a glorified shield and leaves him essentially with 2 basic abilities, since it's really up to the enemies to determine if it lands or not.

#please note this is my opinion on the subject, nothing more, nothing less, and I'm not exactly a godlike player or anything either.

RΟMPECHΟRIZΟS6/3/2018, 9:40:11 PM4 votes

I just logged to upvote this. By the way ... Camille with Conqueror?

DirigoX6/4/2018, 1:37:22 AM3 votes

as an ekko main I agree with all your points but I would like to add that I absolutely wholeheartedly believe he should be able to ult out of cc. its like totally what he does in the cinematic. gangplank can eat an orange which logically dictates that he breaks the magic spell that roots him however reversing to the point before you get rooted nah why would you be able to do that.

TrevorAlu6/3/2018, 11:36:21 PM3 votes

I don't know about buffing ekko. He has a lot of survivability, AOE, and CC which makes him kind of a weird assassin mage hybrid IMO. I think that makes up for his sub-par DPS because he has so many other ways to kill or survive fights.

Cosnirak6/4/2018, 12:41:08 PM3 votes

How is Ekko a late game champion? Also I don't buy that he's weak early unless by early you mean levels 1&2, if that.

I think if AP Ekko's able to isolate a target and stick to them, he should have more DPS.

That is the last thing he needs. He does insane amounts of damage to targets that he isolates and sticks to, even at 1 item. His problem is that he's an AP skirmisher with mana who tends to require team work to get ahead. Plus he's not doing all that bad. Your cherry picked "D+ late game win rate" is not a compelling argument.

Death by Glamour6/4/2018, 5:17:04 PM3 votes

Is he an assasin tho?

I thought riot classed him as a skirmisher

Ifneth6/4/2018, 3:41:28 AM2 votes

How about these changes?

Innate - Ekko’s basic attacks against champions, turrets, and epic monsters grant him stacks of Z-Drive Resonance decaying after 3 seconds. At 3 stacks, Ekko deals 10% bonus magic damage on-hit and gains 10% bonus movement speed.

W - All allies inside gain a shield.

R - Can always be cast unless suppressed or silenced, cannot be prevented or interrupted by displacements, and cleanses Ekko of all disables on-cast.


The new passive would offer Ekko another AP scaling and guaranteed sticking power. If he can’t kill you with his burst, then he will chase and nuke you down with basic attacks. This also works on turrets, for splitpushing, and Baron and Dragon, for Jungle Ekko.

Making W grant allies a shield gives Ekko more teamfighting power and helps him save squishy allies.

Letting R be cast like Tryndamere’s ultimate would let Ekko always escape from crowd control.

Oakleaf Ranger6/4/2018, 4:38:47 AM2 votes

I never want to see tank ekko again. Tank ekko sacrificed burst, not damage. He still did plenty of damage, it was just sustained damage. Which was why tank ekko was viable.

I wont say he doesnt need buffs but I think it would have to be towards making his kit more reliable and not necessarily damage oriented. I think the speed of W and R shadow could probably be a little faster than and/or at least also partially scale with move speed. There is a decent argument to be made for those 2 abilities being too telegraphed.

MLDzXnRRR6/4/2018, 8:59:04 AM2 votes

Ekko is not an assassin, because of his unreliable kit. He is a diver/fighter with ranged waveclear. Of course, you can get fed and 1shot people without MR, but it doesn't happen often. It's all about the second Q part and ult and these can't be landed vs people with a brain. His passive abilities are utilized with survivability build.

There is a reason why Diana, Kassa, Fizz, Akali are way better - what is their counterplay and chance to miss their combos?

Giga Baboon6/4/2018, 10:37:35 AM2 votes

A champion that just pushes from level 1 onwards is bad late game

What a shame

Attticus Finch6/4/2018, 8:46:19 PM2 votes

I'm glad he's awful late game. Now if we can give Fizz and Talon the same dicking the game will be 1 step closer to perfection.

Glory976/4/2018, 2:57:34 PM2 votes

I think it's good for assassins to fall off lategame, and I'm somewhat astonished that other assassisns like zed and fizz are allowed to have such high winrates late, considering their greates strenght is the early. (Though i think ekko deserves some small buffs aswell)

SpecterVonBaren6/4/2018, 4:14:59 AM2 votes

"This will let him more effectively finish off bruisers and tanks when he builds like a carry"

[zombie-brand-facepalm]
Assassins are not supposed to be able to kill bruisers and tanks...

HaIlMonitor6/4/2018, 1:11:42 AM2 votes

He has way to much utility though which is part of the problem.

Tzuyu Is My Bias6/5/2018, 8:00:24 PM1 votes

Seems like ok changes, i'm not the best to judge balance, BUT no buffs on ANY of his % based damage. They were nerfed because of tank Ekko and we DON'T want it back.