Riot's philosophies on champion design are getting stale

Haunted Chef··2 votes·651 views

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're bad, and I understand why they're doing things the way they do. If the only difference between two bruisers is how they deal their damage and various CC numbers, that adds some consistency to the game. IE a lot of the things you have to watch out for against a Garen when toplane translate well into a matchup against a Riven. It makes sense from a design perspective to not shake things up too drastically in a game with this many characters.

However, I'm finding it hard to log in and play a game. It's felt like a chore for the past few months. It feels like my selection of champions is a lot more limited than it appears. I could pick Nautilus, Maokai, Malphite, Amumu, Sejuani, or Zac, go jungle, and get a very similar experience. Sure, there are minor differences that make one preferable over another, or, depending on the patch, straight-up better than the others, but that doesn't really feel like a big change to gameplay. They all fill a similar role.

There are some champions that do stand out as unique, though. Singed is a pretty good example of a champion that actually feels different to play from your standard AP-offtank. Singed can't really fight people head-on like most melee champions do. Singed is going to farm up, go back, farm up, proxy some waves, and through avoiding as much interaction with his opponent as possible, secure an advantage over them toward the mid and lategame. Even when he gets there, he still feels unique because he's so good at just running away, and that's what his whole design is based around. He's not a fighter, and he's unique.

That's all I want, some more unique playstyles, and not just champions with damage gated behind "minigames". League characters don't exist in a vacuum.

23 Comments

Big Lincoln2 votes

i don't get it

are you complaining about their new designs or the tanks that were all made at least 2 years ago?

Haunted Chef1 votes

I'm saying that Riot has been playing it safe. What was new and fresh back then isn't really cutting it any more, and some risks need to be taken for champion design or things are just going to keep deteriorating into more and more bland gameplay.

Big Lincoln2 votes

most of their new releases are vastly different than anything else we've gotten from riot. people just don't like them whenever they're good. Bard, Yasuo, Tahm are examples, even if the third one is currently too strong (and imo is a valid example of bad design), Illaoi is relatively unique with her soul mechanic, and many of the reworks give champions unique toys to play with and means of getting windows of power

if anything a huge chunk of their old champions are the worst in terms of design and could stand to receive similar treatment - imo, some of the tanks listed could probably fit in this category, just to iron out their desired niches

i'd like to see more vector skillshots or something that plays around with portals though

Haunted Chef1 votes

I'm talking about things that go beyond how the champion does damage. Tahm does something pretty unique, that's true, but it ends up being just for CC or saving teammates. I want more characters like Azir that interact with towers, or more characters like Singed who win by means other than fighting.

Big Lincoln1 votes

but singed is awful design with limited gameplay and little by means of meaningful interaction

Haunted Chef1 votes

but it's different, it breaks through the monotony of your standard league game.

Angry Monster1 votes

you need to learn that different is not better. look at what happened with mord, far from desirable.

You are on the certainlyT phlio, throw shit in the game and see what happens. I personally hate that take on design.

Haunted Chef1 votes

Different is better when done well. The problem with the Mordekaiser update wasn't that it was a bad idea, it was just incredibly poorly executed. The problem there was that they took a champion already designed for one thing and pushed him somewhere else while tweaking numbers and things to make him viable there.

It all came down to poor execution.

Angry Monster1 votes

no it was a bad idea, plain and simple. Even some rioters have touched on how free exp like that is a horrible idea. Double power spike for taking a dragon ( bad idea).

You can have a good idea, But the inability to understand it is how it actually effects the game is a problem. Take kalista new mechanic that basically broke her it was executed that well, TO WELL.

The reason most rioters just do not add some weird thing is cause it has some many ripple effects on the game.

You want new and exciting, most people rather have actual a playable game. Look at all the new exciting champs, Yasou, tham, kalista, and you see problematic balance issues. They are always going to OP or UP because their interesting abilities break everything else in the game.

Haunted Chef1 votes

The idea that was good was a new type of botlaner. The poor choices that were made were all of the things you mentioned above that went wrong with it. Yasuo and Tahm were broken because Riot screwed up numbers, and they don't even really change up the game much. We already had AD assassin types that could go mid, we already had tanks that could protect their team. The only big change these guys had from the standard was how they did those things.

The thing I'm talking about is a character that offers an drastically different way of playing the game, not a character that does the same things as someone else but a different way.

Haunted Chef1 votes

Let me give an example of what I mean-

What if there was a champion who got stronger the longer he's been out of his own base? You'd have to balance the risk/reward of being able to stay out of base longer without falling behind, but the enemy team would be getting items and coming back strong too. That'd be something interesting.

Or what about a champion who splits all money he makes evenly between all 5 champions on his team? He wouldn't have the gold to buy the items to be as strong as whoever his opponent is, but if you make a lot of money, your whole team gets stronger, which could help the whole team snowball harder into lategame with good coordination.

Big effects like this. That's what I'm talking about.

Ralanr1 votes

The first one sounds very powerful in the laning phase, and useless if your team is defending the nexus from a siege.

One idea I like is a support who can bound with their adc, making it so they don't die unless the ADC dies.

Haunted Chef1 votes

Sure, that's a pretty cool idea. My ideas weren't really anything other than examples of what I mean, I don't imagine either would fit perfectly into the game.

Ralanr1 votes

There are probably a lot of ideas that hit the drawing board but never make it off. This is because they need to be good for the game. Riot is evolving in their design ability (because they had champions that didn't work in game...still kinda do, but that's what reworks are for) as we can see with champions like TahmKench. Beforehand they would never allow champions that can interact with allies without consent, now they have.

Haunted Chef1 votes

My point is that they need to take bigger risks in terms of champion design. Tahm is a pretty good step in the right direction, but Illaoi is a boring bruiser, Kindred is a boring ADC, Ekko is a boring AP assassin, and so on. Most of their new releases don't offer more than some tiny unique utility coupled with minigame-gated damage.

Ralanr1 votes

Kindred was supposed to be a jungler. People just put her ADC because screw different ideas.

Haunted Chef1 votes

Even as a jungler, she doesn't offer a satisfyingly different experience than a jungle Vayne would, and that's where my issue lies.

Ralanr1 votes

I would disagree on that to be honest. There's the mark mechanic for one, also her ult of making no one die.

Haunted Chef1 votes

The ult is somewhat interesting, but not a big enough effect to make me take notice really. Mark falls into the "gated damage" category that doesn't really make me interested in the character. I want characters that can do something interesting at all points of the game, not just after they've hit 6.

Subject 51 votes

[{quoted}](name=Angry Bards,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vAON4hEi,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-12-03T22:19:41.026+0000)

most of their new releases are vastly different than anything else we've gotten from riot. people just don't like them whenever they're good. Bard, Yasuo, Tahm are examples, even if the third one is currently too strong (and imo is a valid example of bad design), Illaoi is relatively unique with her soul mechanic, and many of the reworks give champions unique toys to play with and means of getting windows of power

if anything a huge chunk of their old champions are the worst in terms of design and could stand to receive similar treatment - imo, some of the tanks listed could probably fit in this category, just to iron out their desired niches

i'd like to see more vector skillshots or something that plays around with portals though

Hold on, let me think about this THREE TIMES. I just need a GAPCLOSER to really think about it. Things are going a bit SLOW so I will just have to be PASSIVE about my thoughts.

Haunted Chef1 votes

I should add, I don't want League to be DotA. DotA has so many unique characters and strategies that it gets a little overwhelming. League does a more simplified version of that pretty well, but "more simplified" doesn't mean it has to be simplified all the way.

LordKentravyon1 votes

In all honesty I've been dabbling into heroes and I wish riot was as adventurous as Blizzard is sometimes. (I like league more overall but recent changes have been pretty meh and most of those I play with have switched because of them)

I think my favorite example is Abathur.

A character who literally cannot enter direct combat and must stay leagues behind the backlines. (there are some incentives to come forward but he cannot be near an enemy champ) However he can provide mass power buffs to allies anywhere around the map working with them.

Now I don't think this specific thing would work in league nor am I saying rito should steal ideas, but it just goes to show how adventurous they are with their designs

Haunted Chef2 votes

It seems like there are two sides to Riot in terms of design. They've got one side that makes a champion like Bard, a fun and interesting character with a focus on roaming, and then the other side that takes that idea and makes roaming with Bard all game not viable by making chime XP really low, turning him into a standard CC-harass-heal support who gets to go fast sometimes when he's running through the jungle.

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